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Rafsanjani Sermon: Discussion and Aftermath

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 15, 2009.

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  1. Ray Murphy Member

    That's how I've taken it, except for small minorities, freedom fighters or terrorists who are ready to fight and/or die.

  2. never thought they did, i was talking to the jackass above my post that ends his posts with death to america..
  3. GREAT video

    Similar to another video I saw.
    The man with loud speaker screams: "death to US, Death to Isreal, Death to the infidels, Death to England" and so on, but the crowd answers "death to Russia"... EVERY time they scream "death to Russia"

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InKo75c-l1A]YouTube - 2009-07-17_Tehran_Part 107[/ame]
  4. yea the news has been saying they were screaming death to russia and talking about russia oppressing them today... evidently that was new..
  5. Visionary Member

    Whoa, I went to bed for four or five hours and there's hardly any updates. What happened?

    a couple more videos


    Iran Uprising Blogging: Latest Updates


    Some pictures:
    [IMG]
    This below is a closer look at one the earlier pics of massive crowds
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Mousavi's wife
    [IMG]

    link to more:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi

    Does anyone have any updates on what happened with the crowds since earlier?
  6. Ray Murphy Member

    Wouldn't it be better if we all used Iran time?
  7. 22:50 is global time. Anything between 12 and 23:59 is PM. Everything between 0 and 11:59 is AM.
  8. Ray Murphy Member

    I should have placed my comment after someone else's message. I was referring to Iran time - not the formatting of it.
  9. As a white non Iranian American.

    Long live the Green movement and freedom for the people of Iran.
  10. Every should know by now that google is OWNED by the Chinese (rem:how they behaved when the chinese wanted censorship)
  11. Yup,

    Much like the Holocast never happened
    or
    The regime blew up that flight to ( Richard fell on that grenade)

    SO fuck off

    and BTW:

    Death to America you knob
  12. JohnDoe Moderator

    Today spouse said to me "What time is it?" I said "I have no idea what time it is here, but in Tehran it's 1.15 pm:D" LOL So I guess that means I already function in Iran time!!!!!!!!
  13. Visionary Member

    More videos of what I think is people shouting: "Marg Bar Russia!"
    Correct me if I'm wrong, and if any of these have been posted before.


    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_M3o-BTbs]YouTube - protest in iran_"Down with Russia" july 17th[/ame]

    Not sure about this one:
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-eYGUHtKSo]YouTube - protest in iran july 17th_part 12[/ame]
  14. JohnDoe Moderator

    Amamadman is a prisoner in Mashad. Evin prison has been emptied of all political and religious prisoners. The Green Wave took over IRIB. Khaminidiot was last seen on a slow train to Russia . . . . .

    Ok so I've been dreaming a little too! Guess we'll just have to wait for NiteOwl's Green Brief. This waiting for news lark is hard work!:)
  15. Visionary Member

    !@#$%!
    :eek:

    For a second there my eyes went wide, just like that. ha ha ha!
    I'm antsy for more news.
  16. JohnDoe Moderator

    We all are, but this game of chess takes a while, and after today the regime have even less pieces left to play with.
  17. Ray Murphy Member

    That's right - you've gotta get with the program!

    I'm just glad that Iran cars have left hand drive - otherwise half the videos would end up being laterally reversed to accomodate American thinking about where the cars should be on the roads :D
  18. Visionary Member

    A Take On Rafsanjani's speech from Tehran Bureau

    Rafsanjani’s Sermon, Split in the Leadership – Tehran Bureau

    The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan
  19. How am I going to read a 48hr 400 posts?
  20. Ray Murphy Member

    Well there's one thing that probably will happen after the new election is held -- the fake president will be whining about the Green Wave causing people to vote the other way because of all the lies.
  21. I have the side bar up on my Vista. I have a Toronto clock and a Tehran clock.

    They're asleep in Tehran right now. God protect them from Basij who creep in the night.
  22. Visionary Member

    Perhaps the first 16 pages should be split off or something, and set up for discussing the speech only
    (not sure how feasible that is)
  23. Ray Murphy Member

  24. Visionary Member

  25. Grow up and have some manners young boy....
    whether you dig it ot not we re all lin this together
    here on psycho planet-so yab better get used to it sinshine....







    ______Yup,(MH)


    Much like the Holocast never happened
    or
    The regime blew up that flight to ( Richard fell on that grenade)

    SO fuck off

    and BTW:

    Death to America you knob ____________________________________
  26. JohnDoe Moderator

    Visionary here's a couple of observations for you that I picked up on during the afternoon.

    Rafsanjani very cleverly used the Koran to show how the regime were being unIslamic. He also quoted Khomini to show how they were going against the '79 revolution.

    Another thing I saw in one of the photos, and my eyes near popped out of my head was men & woman praying side by side on the street. I have never seen that anywhere in the Muslim world, and for sure not in the Islamic Republic.

    So although we may have to wait another few days, it certainly can't be that much longer! I do seriously hear of people saying they can possibly take IRIB - now that would be amazing, and probably speed the whole thing up even more!

    It also seems to be that the fear is gone, when that happens the battle is all but won.

    And do you know what? They've done it on their own, without the big media guys paying attention. Honestly some of these days NiteOwl is going to tell us it's all over, and the world's media will have been caught sleeping and missed the biggest story of this century!
  27. Visionary Member

    Yeah, I read about that somewhere else. I was surprised and heartened as well.

    Some more news about Karroubi:
    Karroubi attacked at the Friday prayer � niacINsight

    My God...I just read that last part now
  28. But he also said that people must adhere to the law. Now we know that the regime has lately been changing the law to "legitimize" their oppression of the media and of the people. So just how logical is all that? Hint: not.

    He also said that everyone must try to just get along.

    Raf, therefore, has given at least two very contradictory messages to the people. He has tried to serve two masters and has failed them both.

    The fear is not gone. The fear simply does not rule the people anymore. Fear is good. It keeps people from acting rashly, foolishingly expending their energies, and sacrificing the wrong things. It is only when fear is out of control that it enslaves the human spirit.

    More dangerous than fear is dependence, particularly dependence on leaders whose loyalty is in question. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that today people abandonned their dependence on these fork-tongued "leaders" and trusted in their own grassroots common sense and courage.

    For example, the almost-taking of Evin and the media headquarters was obviously planned beforehand. Do you think the clerics and opposition leaders can take credit for that planning? Hint: no.

    Yeah, won't that be a day to laugh with joy!
  29. Visionary Member

    Eyewitness Account from Today � niacINsight
  30. Ray Murphy Member

    They didn't change the law at all. They merely claimed they did. For example the right to protest peacefully is embedded in the Constitution, so no law can override it.
  31. Clarification on what Rafsanjani said

    What he said is that the regime, the leadership, the government, the parliament, security forces, military forces, and the people must all work within the framework of the law. The biggest law breakers in that group have been the ones mentioned first. It's obvious that this statement is against the illegal and unconstitutional actions of the government post-election. (the relevant part of the speech is between 58:00 and 58:30 of this audio: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service)

    As for him saying everyone must try to get along, it's pretty obvious due to the major current of his speech being about how important the people are (have been to the Prophet Muhammad's community, have been to Ayatollah Khomeini) that he is putting the onus on the government to regain the people's trust and make the correct move to create unity (i.e. real changes, because the people won't stand for anything less).

    Nobody likes Rafsanjani. No one sees him as a leader of the opposition. But this speech is not what you are saying it is. Rafsanjani is not taking orders from Khamenei. He is a powerful establishment figure playing his own game and that weakens the conservative establishment and is to the benefit of the people.

    And it is to the people that the real victory of today is due. The massive popular participation, making this probably the largest Tehran Friday prayers attendance since the early years of the Islamic Republic, has reaffirmed the popular determination to enact change upon their political situation and has certainly ensured the continued momentum of this movement.
  32. JohnDoe Moderator

    Exactly! You have summed it up perfectly!:D
  33. Visionary Member

    I think we need separate designated threads for (1) discussion of the speech and (2) the protests afterward (just saying, lol)
  34. FreedomAgent Member

    Vision on your third video they are chanting "say death to China, death to China, death to China", and keeps repeating

    And I must add that I never thought I would live to hear Death to Russia or Death to China, I guess Iranians are more aligned with the west against new and old communist regimes than we thought
  35. OK. Fair enough, for now. I have some questions and, if you would answer them, I would be grateful.

    I realize that certain freedoms are entrenched in the Iranian Constitution. I realize that, in Canada at least, Constitutional Law enjoys paramountcy and that, where one party's freedoms infringe on another party's freedoms a proportional solution must be achieved.

    You and I both know that Constitutional challenges cost in the millions of dollars. And therefore the advantage lies with those who have already stolen millions and who intend to go on doing so by oppressing those from whom they are stealing.

    It seems to me, given the jaberwocky which passes for political/legal leadership in the regime, that the law is an ass in that part of the world, at least for the time being.

    There are two dimensions to my question:

    1) the ideal of the law; the law written on our hearts by God Himself; the law we know decides between right and wrong;

    2) the practice of the law; the cynical, self-serving manipulation of the ideal; the perversion of the Divine to serve the profane.

    Ray, how do you prosecute?

    btw, a Canadian human rights lawyer is already suing the regime. Please don't ask me to hunt and peck the link; I'm too freaking exhausted right now.

    Hachemi tried over Kazemi's murder. More recently it has been Irwin Cotler.
  36. Visionary Member

    I had a thought earlier (but was too busy and tired to say it at the time) that this chanting might hurt them, in that it could be used to link them to the west.

    What do you all think? I mean I love it personally, and it was simply unbelievable to my ears and my eyes. :) But I just hope it doesn't cause more damage than good.

    Also what if it makes China and Russia only more eager to help the Regime and condemn the protestors? I recall reading something about a big deal going down with China recently.
  37. I didn't say he was.

    Do you not think it is pretty hypocritical of him to be still playing his own game when he is appealing to all and sundry to just get along? I contend that it is very possible that his double speak also weakens the cause of the people.

    I agree. But I question whether Raf can legitimately take credit for this resurgence of popular fervor for freedom.
  38. FreedomAgent Member

    China and Russia will help the regime regardless they have way too many interest in Iran

    I think this is just the start the next two death chants will be against Lebanon and Palestine, people know very well where their oil money is going
  39. Visionary Member

    I think that would cause a few scuffles, lol.
    How about death to Hamas and death to Hezbollah :D
    But I'll believe that when I see it.

    (never thought I'd see the day when massive crowds of Iranians marched down streets, shouting down their leaders and calling out Russia and China either though.
    I kinda started to tear up a bit watching those videos again a few minutes ago)
  40. dammit lassie, you had me there for a moment! :D

    i heard about conservatives talking smack about the women in improper hijab mixing with the males in that crowd, but it made me think of how, what with the danger of being attacked and even kidnapped like that one female rights activist who was heading to the prayers, perhaps now's not the time to be so concerned about adhering to gender segregration when your female friends and sisters etc. are vulnerable to greater threats.
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