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Rathbun in Hamburg - Events Updates

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Sep 3, 2011.

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  1. Ike Drifter Member

    The win here is that Ursula Caberta just pwned the Co$ big time, diplomatically. It doesn't matter what Marty Rathbun's motivation is; Frau Caberta now has everything she needs to refute the continued assertion of the U.S. that Scientology is under attack from her government. She's now proven that Germany isn't attacking a belief system.

    Continuing to burn Marty in this thread is surely not hurting or helping. It just isn't important. He is a penny-ante player who used to be #2 in the totalitarian Co$.

    Totalitarian Co$ still = target in my book.
    • Like Like x 8
  2. Anonymous Member

    I suppose it does support a charge. But then again, Operation Normandy was an action taken against a community by a cult. Nobody who witnessed that little business go down would say any different. No zoner that had been a target of Rathbuns fair game treatment during the following quarter century would say any different either. Scientology didn't become a cult in Marty's eyes until seeing it as a cult became convenient for Marty, but it's always been a cult.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Anonymous Member

    This is huge and a must-see.

    It explains how the Scientology corporation went from being reviled for infiltrating the US government in the 70's, to having a sympathetic ear of the US president just 10 years later. Bill Clinton, I am very disappoint.
    Leads one to wonder if Clinton had a discreet chat with the head of the IRS, resulting in the bogus tax exemption.
    • Like Like x 4
  4. Anonymous Member

    It's pretty simple. You can't expose Hubbard for the bullshitter and fraudster upon which dangerous lies and abuses are carried out without attention from COS.

    Dismantle COS, get rid of dwarf, then attack the core Hubbtard shit at will.

    Everyone will get cake, Ursula is playing the long game. Let her pat poor Marty on the back as he fights back the tears.

    The phrase "useful idiot" can be applied to him.
  5. Krautfag Member

  6. Krautfag Member

    Wow, Acker, awesome work and extremely fast. You da man :)
    • Like Like x 7
  7. Anonymous Member

    This stuff about Clinton was already known, and known years ago.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. moarxenu Member

    However, in 2011 very few people outside anti-Scientologists know anything about it.
    • Like Like x 6
  9. pedrofcuk Member

    "There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers."

    IMO Marty is doin' it rite, for once.

    That doesn't change the fact that he is a retarded Ronbot.
    • Like Like x 6
  10. Anonymous Member

  11. Nancy Beazley Member

    Acklerland, you rock. Thanks for the subtitles.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Graham Berry Member

    Last Monday I arrived in Hamburg, Germany, for maybe my 12th visit with Ursula Caberta since 1998. Ursula Caberta is the Interior Ministry’s commissioner for abusive cults and sects. Today is the first real opportunity to post a little upon this visit.

    On Tuesday Ms. Caberta and I returned to Hamburg Airport to meet and greet Marty Rathbun and his wonderful wife Monique. Marty Rathbun is the former deputy leader of the Church of Scientology. He literally escaped in 2004 and then disappeared. On April 10, 2006 I had relayed a government invitation to Marty Rathbun and other former senior Scientology executives to visit Germany – for political asylum and personal protection if necessary. See: http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21449&p=236825&hilit=+rathbun+important+berry#p236825

    During the intervening five years there was no response – until six weeks ago when an intermediary was able to develop a communication line between Marty and Ursula and gradually a form of ‘glasnost’ developed. Marty agreed to visit Ursula in Hamburg and I was invited to join them. Since then we have been in a whirlwind of meals, meetings, media and planning.

    I knew nothing about the Church of Scientology and its human rights abuses until late 1990 when I was retained (as part of a legal team) to successfully defend former senior Scientology lawyer Joseph A. Yanny in litigation filed by the Church of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs (“OSA”) – Scientology’s own KGB or Stasi. Many other cases followed.

    The very first Scientologist I met was Scientology uber lawyer Kendrick L. Moxon. Several days later the second Scientologist I met was Marty Rathbun who was then Inspector General of the Church of Scientology and second only to Captain David Miscavige, the church’s tyrannical totalitarian dictator. I had not directly encountered Marty since then, until Ursula and I met him at Hamburg airport last Tuesday, with OSA agents lurking in the shadows. Marty immediately remembered that day long deposition in the offices of Lewis, Brisbois, Bisgaard & Smith twenty years ago.

    In 1994, during the Church of Scientology v. Fishman & Geertz case, Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs commenced a “fair game” project to “utterly destroy [me] by any means possible.” By 2001 they had succeeded. At the same time OSA was also running similar psycho-terror ops against Ursula Caberta. Eventually they were assisted by Tom Cruise, the Clinton Administration, and more recently by Hilary Clinton’s U.S. State Department. This has now been corroborated by the Wikileaks cables and Marty Rathbun.

    To many critics and commentators it is “inconceivable” that former bitter enemies Marty Rathbun, Ursula Caberta and Graham Berry can now be meeting, dining and working together on projects of common interest; such as the exposure of human rights abuses and civil rights abuses within the corporate Church of Scientology. However, I can assure you that it is not “inconceivable” when former foes can forgive each other’s past conduct and develop mutual trust, respect and friendship.

    Remember, Willy Brandt went to East Berlin in the 60s and Nixon went to China in the 70s. Nelson Mandela spent 27 years in a white racist prison for opposing apartheid and then led a multi-racial South African government. My point is that the past can either be an obstacle or it can be a reference point for moving forward, correcting past wrongs and improving future conduct. Eventually there will be a form of truth commission on the criminal conduct, secular frauds and human rights abuses of corporate Scientology. It may take another few years of work to make it happen but it will happen – probably here in Europe before it happens in the United States where we now know for a fact that there is Church of Scientology related infiltration and influence at the very highest levels of the U.S State Department and Department of Justice – “spiking” or stopping F.B.I. investigations before they became a problem for the church (like “Operation Snow White” did in the 1970s).

    Corporate Scientology has many critics. They include the critics inside the Hubbard belief system (such as the Free Zone and the Independents) and the critics outside the Hubbard belief system (such as “the Old Guard” and Anonymous). If the outside critics refuse to work with the inside critics and former top Scientology executives such as Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder there will never be an accounting, any reforms, an end to the beatings, and the elimination of other abuses such as forced abortions, heavy "regging," hard selling, disconnection, the Rehabilitation Project Force (the RPF) or “The Hole” at Scientology’s Gold Base outside Hemet, California – where dozens of former top Scientology management have been literally imprisoned for years.

    This is not the worst of it. I have now learned of David Miscavige engaging in torture. I am informed that Kurt Weiland has been repeatedly water boarded at Gold Base near Hemet, California. It only stopped because he was about to die. Kurt Weiland is another former head of OSA who ran “ops” against Ursula and me. I am no fan or friend of Kurt Weiland (at least at this time) but I detest such outrageous treatment of any person or creature.

    This is not freedom of belief or freedom of religion. This is a terrible stain upon America’s image and a betrayal of all it purports to preserve and protect. If Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder and others from inside corporate Scientology are motivated to stand with those who fight for real religious freedom, then Ursula and I will also stand with them and fight for change. We do not need to endorse or accept all of Hubbard’s philosophy to do this. Indeed, Marty himself has said that the Fair Game document was one of the worst things Hubbard ever wrote.

    I for one cannot say with absolute certainty that if I had been within the Soviet or East German systems I would not have been bent to do the bidding of the KGB or Stasi. War brings out the worst of human nature and the Church of Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs has been at war against the critics of corporate Scientology for fifty years. People like Marty Rathbun were good people, well motivated, who joined the Church of Scientology to do good in the world. Some like Marty became part of the Church’s dark side. http://factnet.org/?p=231

    Those of us who have worked with former Scientology corporate executives know very well that leaving or escaping from the Scientology’s Sea Organization, “waking up,” and speaking out is a process and a journey that differs for everyone. We saw Vaughn and Stacy Young speaking out after three years but Jesse Prince (another former #2) took nearly seven years.

    L. Ron Hubbard wrote that “Man is basically good.” He was correct about Marty Rathbun. Mr. Rathbun does not deny his former role as corporate Scientology’s “Mr. Fix It.” He has accepted his responsibility for his role in some of the corporate church’s human rights abuses, criminal conduct and secular frauds. As a leading Independent Scientologist he is now opposing the crimes, frauds and abuses he once helped commit on behalf of David Miscavige, OSA and the corporate church. He is on an evolving journey.

    And now at least we three have a common purpose; defanging and declawing Scientology’s Office of Special Affairs. For over 140 days Marty has been on the receiving end of very extreme “fair game” intimidation and harassment by OSA. Like so many of the victims of OSA, Marty now knows personally what it feels like to be attacked by the Miscavige monsters he used to command. Now he is fighting back. OSA often makes its own enemies and “pulls it in.” It did the same with both Ursula and me.

    This journey of forgiveness, trust and commitment to a common goal, while agreeing to differ on some other things, has not been an easy or a natural one. It seems to have generated much controversy across at least three continents. I have no regrets and I hope that those who still rail against our forgiveness, friendship and ‘purpose’ can at least have some appreciation of our where we are coming from historically, emotionally, politically and strategically.
    • Like Like x 26
  13. Anonymous Member

    Thank you for doing this, Graham!
    • Like Like x 1
  14. xenubarb Member

    Give us the dox on waterboarding so we may rub the Riverside County BOS' noses in it.
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Anonymous Member

    There is not just one "Fair Game" document, but many. Fair Game (whether the name "Fair Game" is used or not) is an integral part of Hubbard's teachings.

    By the way, if Marty Rathbun has been subjected to very extreme Fair Game over the last 140 days, what do we call what was done to people such as Paulette Cooper and many others?
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Sponge Member

    Yeah, it sounds like a courtesy of providing a safe meeting place while Marty is there. I think Ursula Caberta will get more out of it than the Indies will. More stories for the files and the media, and more butthurt for DM.
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Anonymous Member

    • Like Like x 6
  18. Anonymous Member

    What was known by a few people was that Clinton was sympathetic to the Scientology corporation.
    It was not well known to the general public. Find me one reliable major news source that ever reported it; I did not find any. Now we have an eyewitness report on a major news program from the #2 leader of the Scientology corporation at the time, that he was in the same room while Cruise had a phone conversation with president Clinton, and CEO Miscavige dangled a medal in front of him. This is new DOX, and I think quite important, and valuable in exposing the machinations of the Scientology company.

    It's worth celebrating.

    Hopefully there will be more such revelations.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Anonymous Member

    What DOX?
  20. TinyDancer Member

    Graham, magnificent post. Thank you.
    • Like Like x 4
  21. TinyDancer Member

    Eye witness testimony counts.
    • Like Like x 5
  22. Anonymous Member

    In a court.
  23. Anonymous Member

    ...and at the ministery of the interior don't worry ;D
  24. Anonymous Member

    Best post ITT:



    When Graham Berry complained in his writings and videos that the Clinton administration was biased against him, and that the attorney general was sympathetic to Scientology, I thought it sounded like an extraordinary claim, and a bit difficult to believe. Now we have DOX thanks to Rathbun that Clinton was being unduly influenced by Scientology celebrities, lending support to Berry's claims of unfair treatment.


    QFT

    This would have sounded like heavy tinfoil speculation. Now we have the first DOX that this could be true.

    ^Waterboarding. FRICKIN WATERBOARDING!!!
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Anonymous Member

    Dox?
  26. xenubarb Member

    It is only a blip in the big picture. (no pun intended, of course)
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Anonymous Member

    Credit where its due, puh-leeze
    • Like Like x 3
  28. Anonymous Member

    Shit, this'll get Miscavige admired in all the wrong places, if true.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Was not aware of wikileaks docs, and google is not providing. Link plox?
  30. BLiP Member

  31. Anonymous Member

    Thanks!

    I wonder why this was classified, it looks pretty banal.
    This doc does not describe any personal phone conversations between Scientology corporate representative Tom Cruise and president Clinton. Such phone conversations would explain how Scientology got such favorable treatment: Clinton was star struck and wanted to please his idol (for lack of a better word).
  32. Graham Berry Member

    Marty's express goal, along with ours, is the elimination of the corporate church in all forms. It is NOT to reform the corporate church. If people want to practice Scientology among themselves, without engaging in wrongful conduct or hurting others, then surely that is their right in a free society. This is not an overnight project. It is a multi-year strategy.
    • Like Like x 7
  33. greebly Member

    I agree on many points and stated most of that back in 2009 on here somewhere.

    btw pm'ed you re current events.
  34. LocalSP Member

    But the Tech is faulty and it creates the conditions that allowed the abuses to happen.
  35. There is no 'tech'.
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Xinjifar Member

    Graham, I've got the highest respect for you and, there is little that I disagree with in your post.

    At the same time, I don't see anything but a Dog and Pony Show here which may help Ursula Caberta in her own activities, which is good, but also serves to 'validate' Marty Rathbun as some kind of leading light and trustworthy representative of people working to expose and oppose the criminal activities of the 'Church' of Scientology.

    If Marty Rathbun were to expose what he knows of the criminal activity of the 'Church' I would praise him. And, no, he hasn't. The most he's ever done is refer to longtime public knowledge, and, yes, in the SPTimes he did serve to *confirm* information on abuse at Int Base that had been revealed long before by others, who didn't try to leverage it into a powr base for themselves.

    If Marty Rathbun were to have just left and gotten on with his life, even to the point of practicing 'auditing' on others, he would be a non-issue for me. I'd like to see him on a witness stand, under oath, but, I'm not all that obsessed with the punishment of *individuals* for their crimes in the name of Scientology. I want the prosecution of the *organization*.

    The only reason I waste my attention on Marty Rathbun's 'Independent Scientology' charade is that he's spent 2 years programmatically attempting to deflect attention from criminal prosecution of the organization. He's said so much himself at his http://savescientology.com website, where, under the guise of 'a number of in good standing Scientology Professionals, he's erected yet another of his 'front organizations'.

    I've watched all the videos; I've listened to what he has to say. I've read his blog and other writings. I think that's essential and I wish more people did.

    His goals are *not* my goals and, for the most part, run totally contrary to my own goals re: Scientology. He wants to save it; not just the practice or the 'philosophy', but the Organization itself. With minimal *external* investigation or even attention. He's certainly adept at 'being all things to all people' and changing his spots to suit his audience. But, that doesn't make him 'trustworthy'; if anything, it should be setting off alarm bells.

    Example:

    We now have *three* (count them; 3 that we *know* of) versions of the story of how he came to travel to Hamburg.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On April 10, 2006 I had relayed a government invitation to Marty Rathbun and other former senior Scientology executives to visit Germany – for political asylum and personal protection if necessary.
    During the intervening five years there was no response – until six weeks ago when an intermediary was able to develop a communication line between Marty and Ursula and gradually a form of ‘glasnost’ developed. Marty agreed to visit Ursula in Hamburg and I was invited to join them. Since then we have been in a whirlwind of meals, meetings, media and planning.
    - From Graham Berry

    Two years ago the German government invited me to come there and to testify about Scientology. I told them they might not like what I have to say since my view is that the work of L Ron Hubbard and the philosophy of Scientology should survive and thrive. Interest waned; and we carried on with our work here.
    - Marty Rathbun on MartyWorld

    Rathbun says that Ursula Caberta, a Hamburg politician, invited him to come speak in Germany two years ago, but he declined.
    - Marty Rathbun to Tony Ortega
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why do we need *three* versions?
    • Like Like x 7
  37. Anonymous Member

    This has been known for quite some time. Are there new DOX? other than old news testimony. Where?
  38. Anonymous Member

    Rathbun served Anonymous ends without Anonymous needing to do aught but show up at the proceedings.
    Marty played his part properly.

    Our aim was achieved: Miscavige has lost Germany irretrievably.
    Major WIN
    • Like Like x 1
  39. Anonymous Member

    Hey, how about those amazing Hamburg Anons! Well done you glorious bastards!
    • Like Like x 16
  40. Anonymous Member

    It has not been known that Rathbun was eyewitness to a conversation between Cruise and Clinton.
    • Like Like x 1
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