Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT! In my experience as an Ex and as a denizen of ESMB, this is very common among ex-Scientologists. I see this all of the time on ESMB. Focusing first just on Scientology public, and ignoring Sea Orgers and OSA types, for years people ranted delusional, discriminatory and abusive crap about psychs, invalidated and denigrated "illegal" PCs, felt superior to mere "wogs," told "acceptable truths" (i.e., lied), and defrauded and pressured their friends and family to load up their credit cards, mortgage their homes, and take out loans in order to buy auditing and courses, or raise their IAS level, or contribute to the Superpower building -- and, not coincidentally, pay the seller commission on each sale or contribution. And then you add in the Sea Org and OSA types who did far worse. And when did they leave? Only after they, personally, had been screwed. Only after they, personally, had fallen out of favor and been mistreated. Did they leave in protest when others were mistreated? No. Did they leave in protest because they refused to tell another acceptable truth? No. Did they leave in protest because they couldn't stand to see a lonely elderly woman be coerced / defrauded / induced to mortgage her home, her only large remaining asset and source of stability, to pay for auditing or contributions? No. Did they leave in protest because the ranting about psychs was delusional and evil? No. Did they leave in protest because denying "religious" services (i.e., auditing) to "illegal" PCs is morally reprehensible, or because even referring to such people as "illegal" PCs is disgusting? No. No, they left when they personally were harmed or mistreated. And then joined the critical or "ex" communities to a warm embrace, and sometimes to a hero's welcome, to complain about how horrible everything was. Well, ask yourself this, Mr. or Ms. Ex Scientologist: Who made it horrible? YOU DID. The policies -- the HCOPLs, the HCOBs, the book Introduction to Scientology Ethics -- didn't execute themselves. They were words written on page. They had no force, power, or effect until somebody chose to follow them. Until YOU chose to follow them. Nobody held a gun to your head. You could have waked out the door. Others did. You didn't. You chose to stay. You chose to comply. You chose to follow the policies. You chose to lie, and coerce, and do evil -- or fund and support others who did. FWIW, I tried to raise this issue in my ESMB post: Done to others? Done to self? Why we left. . The responses I received were somewhat less than satisfactory.