Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Kha Khan, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. Random guy Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    They could use some help getting out of their mental traps indeed, or perhaps we'll need to keep an eye on them. However, whose campaign are we furthering now?
  2. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Calling someone out for who they are is not attacking the person. Knowing what cards are in the deck is essential to playing the hand.

    Leave acceptable truth to the cultists.

  3. Random guy Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You are right. I should have said "concentrating" rather than "attacking". My main point still stands though.

    There will be plenty time to deal with the two afterwards.
  4. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I agree with Random Guy. Our energies are better used right now in other directions, rather than helping DM tar and feather R&R.

    IMO, it's better to work against what we KNOW DM is doing, rather than what some of us SUSPECT R&R might do some time in the future.
  5. peterstorm Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Yep. He misses being the go-to guy. Being regarded as the guy who fixes things, like destroying evidence in the murder of a woman.

    Co$ is an egotrip. Getting down to earth seems to be a rough ride. Toughen up Marty!
  6. mrfyde Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I am obviously no fan of the guy, but when we start stating his goals we are doing something he has never done.

    Im not saying your wrong, just saying we really don't have enough information on him to make statements like that.

    What ever happens between Anon. and the MR's is not going to be decided today. (at least not by anon.)
  7. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I was not referring to what MR might do but what MR has done and continues to do. Considering these aspects of MR, to allow, ignore or promote them would lead to incredibility of any arguments held by anons in the expose of the cult.

    Anon can multitask. DM will never be out of sight of anon.

  8. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    As an ex-Scientologist who probably came a lot closer to walking in their shoes than you have, let me respectfully say this. What a load.

    The interesting thing about ex-Scientologists is that everyone was a victim. Nobody was a victimizer. Nobody was responsible. Now including the people who worked at, and at times headed, OSA Int.?

    In the name of Xenu, if Rathbun and Rinder weren't responsible, who the hell was?

    Rathbun and Rinder were free, in the public, and free to leave at any time. Indeed, Rathbun has acknowledged that he actually blew earlier and chose to come back to the COS.

    They were physically abused? Boo hoo. Years ago I volunteered at a shelter for battered women where the women came in after being threatened with death. One had a broken arm. One had had a bullet removed from her foot. They left their abusive environments, often with no money, no job skills and little education, and were justifiably scared shitless. But Rathbun and Rinder, who were out in public and made farkin TV appearances, couldn't leave? Yeah, right.

    Rathbun and Rinder are the people we're supposed to excuse and feel sorry for?

    The magical result of such thinking will eventually be this. When the last person has left the official Church of Scientology it will be discovered that every Scientologist was a victim, and absolutely nobody was responsible. Ever. For anything. At any time.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Nobody suggested that they be let off the hook for their own offences. Such black and white thinking is a problem of another kind. Understanding that people were under duress doesn't mean they should get off scot free. But it does need to be taken into account, because some people's crimes, which are not committed under duress (eg Miscavige) need to be seen in their proper context. These offences are not equal.
  10. Snark Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I asked Gerry about the settlement once during a raid, and why he decided not to honor it. He gave several valid reasons but the one that really stuck in my mind was the fact that, part of the agreement on Scientology's end was the immediate ceasing of fair game, something which obviously did not happen.

    I think that says something very positive about the quality of Gerry's character.

    During the last raid Gerry did mention that he has been in contact with Rathburn and that Rathburn's replies have been hostile, which coincides with the comments on his blog.

    Armstrong has been fair gamed for over twenty years... a man who was scientology's public enemy #1 second only to Bob Minton and in many ways still is and Rathburn treats his as such.

    My opinion of Gerry is admittedly biased given the time I have spent with him and the amount I have grown to respect him, but Rathburn's response to the mere mention of his name tells me that he is not here to speak out against Scientology or the crimes commited by Hubbard et al. He still believes the shitty things he and others did were necessary and justifiable. He's as much a scientologist now as he was then and capable of the same things, he just doesn't like the boss all that much.

    Replace Miscavidge with Rathburn and you have the same shit except with an absence of bruises on the faces of management.

    Fuck Rathburn. I hope WBM's Onion theory is correct, and I look forward to the day it is, but until then, Rathburn is the same guy out as he was in.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I agree with this.

    I've read things come from Marty Rathbun's mouth that make me cautiously hopeful, and I've read others that I find pretty troubling. Hopefully that's because he's a guy in transition, who's still finding his feet.

    If this was a straight criminal case, with a few people involved, I'd say "get the evidence, bang him up, and let him do his 'decompressing' in there"...however it's not, and the fact is that Marty Rathbun is putting the squeeze on DM in an extremely effective manner, and the wall with the writing on it is getting closer every day.

    To distract or detract from him doing that serves none of our purposes, no matter what speculation there may be.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Of course. I wasn't referring to me though, I'm the most humble person on this planet. I was more trying to picture Gandhi, or such person, going along with evil stuff, persistently (matter of fact, history shows that a lot of people stood up to really evil stuff, and died doing so.) To me this makes the case that not everybody has it in them to do really bad stuff persistently. Rinder and Rathbun were high ranking officials in a organization engaging in bad stuff persistently. And they still think that Gerry Armstrong deserves what he got, this shows how screwed up they are still are. I have no doubt they would applaud wildly if he was to be thrown to jail in California (This is where Gerry was asking for some help, to undo this nonsense.)
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Yeah, he found out they kept smearing his name years after the agreement (ex. IRS 1023 documents.) The agreement was broken by the Church of Scientology.

    Unlike Rinder/Rathbun, Gerry left when he found out Hubbard was a fraud: He cared for the fact/truth and the fraud perpetrated on followers -- that means a lot about his character. He even asked back then to the Church of Scientology to just set the record straight about Hubbard. Of course, that wasn't going to happen, so he left. And became target of Scientology's hate doctrine. Rinder/Rathbun left because of one too many beatings -- I wonder if they would have blown if it was actually "SPs" like Gerry being beaten, or worse.
  14. Antagone Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I'm not disagreeing, but what duress is Rathbun under now?
  15. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Rathbun does seem to have a closed mind when it comes to Gerry.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Ratbutt is still selling the tech. Half measure avail us nothing. He stated his intention and he is getting a reaction and consequence for it. It's not our fault he timed the two together so closely.
    Guy is so greedy, he put all his cards on the table almost at one time except the ones he should be playing. It is he who is fucking up the strategy not anonymous.
    Rattbutt isn't freezone either and targeted many FZers as well at one time. Now he desires they join him and retake scientology ? Bitch is PAing everybody but DM.
    I will never endorse his bullshit. some FZers better get a clue.
    Rattbutt and Grinder are still and always will be part of scientology in it's current form.
    They've made their intentions perfectly clear.
  17. Vir Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder


    R & R !

    To those who are saying that Rathbun and Rinder want to "take over" from DM, what the hell do you even mean by that? DM's position isn't even supposed to exist as it is today, he's only supposed to be chairman of the RTC, not to run the whole of Scientology.

    If anyone wanted to take over that as a whole, they would have staged a silent behind-the-scenes takeover where DM suddenly disappeared from their websites and went into SP hall. Speaking out publicly would be a very poor way to maintain the RTC's power over Scientology, but it might be seen as a step toward reforming Scientology into something a bit less sinister. Depending on the outcome of something like that, we could have a Church of Scientology unrecognizable to its present form. Maybe not a perfect land of unicorns and rainbows, but at least a place that doesn't do much harm. who knows?

    Yes, they should apologize for more of what they've done, but they've started to speak out publicly about some of the abuses, and that's great. I remember when they were silent, and back then we wanted them to speak out. And I'm glad they did, because that shows they have some trace of honor left in them. I'm not saying we should be giving absolute benefit of the doubt, but trying to ascribe motives and goals to them is a waste of time better spent fighting the fraud and abuse that we actually know about.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Epic fail v Post is Epic fail

  19. Anonymous Member

  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

  21. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I don't understand what he is saying about GA either but it is unlikely to be friendly or true fax.

    And I don't think our primary purpose has ever been to get people away from the CoS and DM, It is to destroy the cult designed by Hubbard and maintained in his image by DM: the fraud known as Scientology. One aspect of this purpose is to persuade active members to leave the cult and stop practicing its tech but this is incidental. There are many more lines of attack, all promising. Marty himself refers to IRS investigations which could close down every 'church' overnight.

    A con does not become better because people with good intentions are taken in by it.

    Nor do deluded people become normal again by continuing to believe in Hubbard. Those who have access to the true facts and remain believers in Scientology's alleged abilities cannot be exempted from the general attack on Scientology.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    If they leave the cult, and do no harm, who cares if they believe in the tech?

    This is true, but we should go after those who defraud and abuse.

    By that, I mean go after those who don't believe in the tech themselves but only use it to trick people, and also those who believe in the tech so much that they harm people.

    In addition to this, we might want to convert those who believe honestly into thinking the same as we do, but that is something which should be done with open and honest debate and healing, not as part of a campaign of attack.

    Yes they can! It'll be a frosty day in Hell if I ever start attacking people for what they believe in, as long as they don't harm other people or contribute to abuse.
  23. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    How can anyone know what MR 'would have done'? Or tried to do? We only know what he did. Which was to move to the outside of the razor wire and begin building his own little empire distinct from present leadership. He would not be doing this if he did not imagine he would be successful. So much is safe to guess.

    But how can any reformed version of Scientology 'not do much harm' compared with the current version? The nature of Scientology requires that it harms every person, young and old, that believes its false claims. It takes their lives, their careers, their self-confidence and their children, as well as their money, which in some ways is the least of it. It is a scandalous and shameless organization rotten right down to its roots.

    And Marty and his buddies are hoping to make a new career in this criminal organisation; so much is certain. Why are we wasting our time being NICE to this person?

    This is boring.
  24. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Let's assume that all active Scientologists use the tech honestly but that this in fact harms people. This is the only safe assumption we can make. We therefore attack Scientology and individuals who work for Scientology because our evidence repeatedly confirms that everything they do for the cult harms other people and contributes to abuse. As long as they believe in the tech they remain Scientologists. Once they stop believing, they stop being Scientologists.

    Since when did open and honest debate not form part of our campaign of attack? What is this endless and boring thread (for example) all about?
  25. Snark Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Not only were they supposed to stop smearing him as part of the agreement but everyone else to.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Do you agree with this Tiny, or do you believe Hubbard, and therefore Scientology is inherently evil, and our target?
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I would say that LHR is the source of some kinds of evils that Scientology was implemented as, which is a result of very callous and unloving LHR policies.
  28. amaX Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    What the hell? Do you think about breaking into a nursery and stabbing ten babies to death? I have never thought of anything like that in my life. I'm not talking about revenge or protecting yourself or someone else from harm or someone who's insane. I'm talking about out-and-out evil...hurting or killing someone just because you thought of it. a la Johnny Cash: I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die?

    Most people I know aren't capable of pure evil.

    LOL Did everyone here read the whole Truth Rundown series including all the editorials on the side lines? Did you read the editorial that pretty much summed it all up with "the cult has always been bad and will continue to be bad?" Have Rathbun and Rinder read that editorial?

    Oooooo...I love this quote from that editorial so much:

    "There is a cancer at the core of Scientology and that has not changed."

    The SPTimes didn't run that series to make heroes out of Rinder and Rathbun. It ran that series to show that the cult is a cult is a cult. To show that the cult is no different under Miscavige's rule than it was under Hubbard's.

    Excuse me? I'm not helping Shorty Miscavige tar and feather Rinder and Rathbun. Who knows what the hell Rinder is doing? We KNOW what Rathbun is doing: he's still a Scientologist. He's still keeping Scientology working. He's not stepping away from Hubbard at all. Remember that it's perfectly fine for a Scientologist to lie through their fucking teeth as long as they keep Scientology working. Rathbun is doing this right now. He's still a practicing Scientologist. He's censoring his blog. He's trying to say that anyone against him is working for David Miscavige and some people are buying it. This is a man who could come clean on so many things and be bringing this cult down so quickly and yet he's not.

    Do you notice how we're not ripping Rinder? We don't know what Rinder is doing these days. We get cryptic anonymous posts here in wwp that Rinder is working with the feds, etc., but we don't really know so we're not posting much about him.

    We do know what Rathbun is doing and if we disagree with him and think he's still an egotistical, lying Scientologist who's ruined many people.

    Once again, Rathbun is still a Scientologist. Rathbun is trying to gather expat Scientologists together. Rathbun is trying to lay the complete blame for all that's wrong with Scientology on David Miscavige. Rathbun sees nothing wrong with Hubbard or how Hubbard ran things. Rathbun is trying to lay the groundwork to discredit Anonymous. I am not a rocket scientist, but IMO you don't have to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots.
  29. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Oh you.

    Anyways, I don't get the big deal here. Who cares about these two wingnuts? If they've done something illegal, forward the evidence to the cops. Beyond that, who cares if they want to believe in Scientology and recruit people? Last time I checked, people are free to believe what they want and practice their faith as they see fit- so long as they're not doing anything illegal of course. And last time I checked, the Freezone isn't doing anything illegal. So why bother with them?
  30. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That's a good point, per se. The problem is that there is much more about the cult to object to than what Rathbun wants to admit. He doesn't want LRH and the tech torn down, but they should be, they are, and they will be, and the earth salted after. He won't like it, and neither will others who don't want to let go of their brainwashing yet, but that's too bad. Fun's over.

    There's no such thing as "pure" evil. Evil is a perversion of good.

    What are you, drunk? What's even the point of that comment?

    You should have stayed retired, just like Jordan didn't with the Wizards.

    Who the hell is this Rathburn guy? He sure sounds like Rathbun. Creepy!! :confused:

    Also, Miscavige. And cocks. Lots of them.
  31. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Tell me, what was the point of this comment?

  32. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    By employing the scilon tech, MR has negated the forums as "natter boards". Anyone who thinks that exposing MR here for what he is, would change what MR does, is kidding themselves. MR has an agenda, to KSW, just as Hubbard dictated to DM and all of the scilons.

    There is no such thing as why we protest freedom of speech, because there is no such thing as protesting scientology and still KSW. There is only finding the scilon tech driven "who" and in MR's view, it is DM.

  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    This ^^^^
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That's all well and good, and whilst I'd like nothing better than for pretty much everything known as Scientology to ultimately disappear, the approach you're suggesting would have precisely the opposite effect.

    Beliefs and ideologies are bulletproof. They also harden the more they're attacked. The only way you "destroy" them, is through mutual respect and open debate, with the respect having to be gained first.

    If you disagree, please explain your alternative strategy.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    First, you would have to define what Scientology's "bulletproof beliefs and ideologies" are. Delineate them.

    (My personal opinion is what you just posted was pure bull shit).
  36. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Scientology is beliefs and ideologies. The point he was making is that you can't just destroy beliefs and ideologies. And he's right. His post wasn't pure bull shit. It was an excellent post that many people around here would do well to read and take to heart.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Which ones are the bulletproof ones?

    • The Xenu Story
      Fair Game?
      Hubbard was a war hero?
      The Billion-year Sea Org contract?
      "There was no Christ"
      "Christ was a Pedophile"?
      Never defend, always attack?
      Spread lurid blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press?
      Killing a cockroach by staring at it using OT powers?
      Putting out a fire, with postulation?
      Siddhartha was in the great middle path of the Scientology spectrum, and Gerry Armstrong is way left, and David Miscavige's ally?

    The Nazis had beliefs and ideologies. Is this the exeption to the rule that "beliefs and ideologies are bulletproof?" They weren't for the nazis and are for the Scientologists.
  38. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Heh, heh. Nice one.

  39. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    They all are really. As for the nazis, their beliefs and ideology survived WWII and the utter defeat of Germany. Which just further proves the point of the post to which you took exception. Perhaps you are confusing "bulletproof" with righteous or just.
  40. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Oh yawn. Scientology isn't beliefs and ideologies. It's a money-making scam disguised as a cult which depends on brain-washing techniques which are used illegally and covertly to part people from their money and which quite often also incidentally part them from their families, their sanity, their health and their lives.

    Now I'm going to bed.

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