Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Kha Khan, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    A belief is to take something as true. Xenu has been debunked so many times, in so many ways now, it is epic lulz. Therefore, the belief is not bulletproof, not righteous and it is not just; as it is used to abuse others by way of indoctrination and control by the cult.

  2. Antagone Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Look, will you calm down and minute and read what I've actually written? No I don't sit and think about stabbing babies - I was reaching for an example of an act which would be deemed evil.

    I'll try and explain it one last time. I have working arms and legs and sharp knives in the kitchen drawer so I could physically go and do the act I described. The point is I wouldn't.

    I still don't know why you're so determined to go off on one here since we're pretty much saying the same thing.

    Rathbun has the choice to try and make things right for people like Gerry Armstrong; it might not do any good but he could at least try. However, he chooses not to and instead he chooses to snipe on his blog like some hormone-addled teen posting on LiveJournal.

    No matter, I'm even boring myself now with flogging this one.
  3. LocalSP Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    They are not bulletproof, there are ex scieno's that prove that. Ideologies and philosophies are not bulletproof for the fact that they can be interpreted differently by different people.
  4. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Well sure if you over simplify it. Unfortunately the complex reality of life is lost in the process.

    Whether or not something has been debunked has nothing to do with its status as belief. If scientology isn't a collection of ideas, than what is it?

    Of course they can. Which again, goes back to the point made by the other poster. Ideas can't be destroyed, they can only be made to die out by changing hearts and minds. As long as a single person believes in the teachings of LRH, those ideas live on.
  5. LocalSP Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    But it doesn't make them bulletproof. If that one person interprets it differently than El Ron envisioned it, it has changed. Perhaps the word bulletproof is too strong of a word in this case.
  6. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    No the point is that the only way ideas die is for people to change their minds or for knowledge of those ideas to die out. We're kind of in agreement here. We're talking about different aspects of the same thing.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    The flood of Noah has been debunked far more times for far longer, yet it still lives on. Fuck, some people even still believe in a flat earth.

    How exactly do you propose to destroy ideas?
  8. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I never said that ideas are destroyed. They are debunked and attention is paid to them when they are used to abuse others.

  9. Snark Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Ideas don't die but the useless ones are often relegated to obscurity. With any luck, this will on day be the case with Hubbard's insidious self help philosophy.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Great! Now you're going to tell me there isn't a real Santa Claus.
  11. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Oh noes!!11one111!!!!!

  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You're right. Idea's don't die. But they do become more idiotic.
  13. amaX Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Won't the old lady calm down now?

    LOL no.

    Listen, we are not saying the same thing. Yes, I also have working arms and legs and a drawerful of knives---see my avatar? That's the knife I bring from home to cut our cakes. Anonymous Clearwater Cell is not a safe enough group for me to bring my ceramic shamrock-covered cake cutter from Ireland so I use my big ole knife. I don't ever think of doing anything evil like taking my damned knives and going out to kill anyone in cold blood. I am saying that I know many people who don't think of those things and would never do anything like that. Not everyone is capable of being evil. I stand by that. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

    Yes, I do agree that Rathbun is choosing not to help people that he has harmed. Feel better? I do.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Delineate that collection of ideas. (If you don't, I will).
  15. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Knock yourself out. I fail to see the relevancy.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    It's not a matter of delineating. Course lists play no role in the discussion around this Anonymous quote

    Beliefs and ideologies ARE bulletproof in that they are CONVICTIONS held by an individual. Each and every one of us have beliefs. They aren't necessarily religious in nature. They're bulletproof because we have adopted them, absorbed them - however you want to say it. To us, our own beliefs are "THE WAY IT IS".

    That said, the more a person's beliefs are attacked, the more that person will defend them, thus hardening them as the Anon poster indicated, above. Call it ego, stubborness, investment of time/energy/money, etc...we all have this intrinsic need to defend and justify our beliefs EVEN IF THEY ARE FAULTY BELIEFS.

    Mutual respect, open debate, etc. are the way to destroy them. Plant seeds of doubt - hell, plant forests of doubt. But, the debunking of a belief can only be done by the person holding that belief. It's the CONVICTION not the CONTENT.
  17. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You might be interested in checking out the definition of the word debunk.

    The acceptance by true believers of that which is debunked does not matter when the beliefs are used to abuse others. What matters is exposing and stopping the abuse.

    I'm sure MR will hold on to his convictions for as long as he can.

  18. parvent Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I see--leave scientology alone because of the conviction...

    But let's get back to those Ideas:

    My favorite is "men will grovel at you feet, and not know why."
  19. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Which comment, the African or the Europ--uhhh, I mean, the one above or the one below your question? And I asked you first.

    See, the thing is, I wasn't suggesting an approach. I agree with what's been posted ITT since I posted that. The approach/strategy is the sunshine of open discussion, which is exactly what Chanology is spurring. IMO that will achieve our desired end goal, because good ideas and firsthand testimony tend to beat bad ideas and delusional mantras in a fair fight. This fight is occurring in the public mind; I probably should have made that clear in my previous post to prevent misunderstanding. I guess I was venting. :-p

    The few copies of Hubbard's glop which anybody will bother to preserve after that will be used as museum-piece examples of "doing it wrong", pretty much a la "Mein Kampf" today. (We're already heading in that direction, what with the global library-donation books washing back in with the tide. The world is arriving at the "DO NOT WANT" stage now w/r to Hubbardism.) Yeah, there'll still be a few retards with LRH shrines in their closets, but nobody will care or listen to them and/because they won't have an army of Moxons or a stable of brainwashed OSA zealots to deploy.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You're missing the point, and I don't need any assistance with the definition of "debunk", but thanks for your concern. Several are disagreeing with you, and we're all wrong. Interesting.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    NO. Not "leave scientology alone". No one said that.
  22. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Wow, you missed the point. There's a surprise.
  23. Snark Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    hahahahahaha can't argue with that.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Look, when anon said that ideas are bulletproof, it doesn't mean that ideas are unassailable, true or good. It just means that they are intangible and can't be "killed" like us humans, and as long as one person still believes in them, or they are written down somewhere, if the ideas are appealing to somebody, they will live on.

    So if you want to fight ideas, you fight them with better ideas.

  25. Antagone Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I think the problem is you're still responding to what you think I'm saying, rather than what I am saying and now I'm starting to get a tad irritated that despite my explanations you still seem to think I fantasise about stabbing babies. So, you know, I think I'm just going to call it quits on this one and lament the lack of a sage function.
  26. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    So let's just wait for these ideas to die out and let Scientology fraud, their myriad of scamming front groups and their brutal abuses continue in the name of religious ideology. What have all of these Anonymous protests been about? Those evil internet terrorists are so damn impatient?

    It's the following of the the lying, child abusing fraud LRH's permanent tech and policies that leads to the crimes. If anyone wants to charge people money to follow this conman's ideas and policies then that in and of itself requires the abuses. If they want to make up some other crazy sci-fi religion without all of the abusive policies, good luck to them, however that could not be called Scientology. For Scientology to continue, by design all of Hubbard's "perfect" tech and abusive policies would have to be followed to the letter.

    Scientology abuses its membership, encourages them to commit fraud on credit applications, abuses children, the elderly, operates a gulag system, subjorns perjury, physically and mentally beats members, makes millions off of a medically dangerous drug rehabilitation program (Narconon) that is nothing but Scientology courses. There's too many abuses to list here. They harass and tie up the legal systems with bogus complaints. .

    There are so many crimes of fraud and abuse that it takes a lot to combat it, you can wait for the ideas to die out if you'd like. There is no such animal as a kinder and gentler Scientology, that would be Out-Ethics! Rathbun, Rinder or anyone else is free to start a non-abusive "religion" with batshit insane alien nonsense but it would not and could not be Scientology without Hubbard's policies enforced. "To the end of the criminal cult of Scientology." TY, Anonymous! Cheers!
  27. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder


  28. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Who said anything about just letting it die out on its own? I said that's one of the ways in which ideas perish. Pay more attention.
  29. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You're somewhat nauseating, not standing up for your trolling devil's advocate
    harangues. Were you beat up a lot in grade school? Take care of yourself, damn Mama warned me about feeding trolls. No more for you.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder


  31. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    ^^^^ Nice Caps!

    I don't get it? lol, Read all of his posts, Herro thought it was real funny how Rathbun invited Lisa Macpherson's "Thetan" to visit his blog. I don't mind opposing viewpoints but when he crosses the line with shit like that, he should be called out. That's disgusting and if he can dish he should be able to take it.

    Have your ideological battles if you want but when it comes to Hubbard's insane bullshit, his ideology does not merit it. He had no credentials whatsoever, he was a complete fraud, abused children, members, wives, kids, he was a piece of shit who's ideology was all made up like his WW2 war hero lies, Nuclear physicist claim, Civil engineer claim, on and on, so many lies and frauds.

    You don't get it.
  32. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Herro should be committed to a mental hospital before he harm someone with his objectiveness. If your just gonna wait until get uses his mind to turn the world over, with his imaginary arguing powers. He could pop and do some real damage to regular posters. Or we could just have our popcorn as he realizes how wrong he really was after all this time.
  33. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Well I'm sorry that I seem to be the sweat induced chafing betwixt your thighs. But I gotta tell you man, you're totally missing the point and not really paying attention. You're arguing against things I never said. I think you also need to recognize the strategic value of understanding and humanizing scientologists. They really aren't that different from anyone else. I think you may be too emotionally invested in all of this though.

    And yes, what Rathburn said about Lisa Macpherson's thetan was funny. Well not the statement itself, the reaction to the statement. And really, when you think about the balls or overall cluelessness of Rathburn, the statement itself is kinda funny too.
  34. rof Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Dehumanizing the enemy is as old as war.

    It seems like a good idea but you lose some of your own humanity in the process.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That was a lousy troll.

  36. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    NOTHING about the Lisa Macpherson situation is funny. It just goes to show you how much above the law these pricks think they are. A let's discuss approach to Scientology has not and will not ever work. They need to be held accountable for all of the abuses and fraud.

    I've been paying "attention" for a long time. I'm an ex who was fortunate to get out before i got too involved. Since the dawn of Anonymous, real progress has been made against their brutal abuses. I am forever grateful for that.

    Look, i simply couldn't disagree with you more. I've got loads of family still in, have dealt with OSA, disconnection, the whole 9 yards, personally. I love my family, hate Scientology. A lot of my relatives have been in since they were kids, know nothing else, i'm fighting FOR them. We still get together every couple of years, don't discuss scientology with them because it's pointless. They won't listen, will shut down and disconnect, period. It's been a nightmare for everyone involved.

    Most of my family is not in and we all play along to keep our family together despite the differences. They've been controlled by a total mindfuck for ages due to severe Scientology processing. There is no talking to them or exchanging ideas because they are all trained in sp and pts bullshit. They totally 100% believe in "entheta" which is the biggest problem i have with Scientology.

    Any group that won't allow critical thought is doomed to fail. Hubbard's poliocies don't allow critical thought at all. My realatives all work slave labor hours, 100 a week for peanuts, no benefits, i'm doing my best to bring down this vicious evil cult to "HELP" them and other Scientologists who are this cult's biggest victims. I hope the whole fraud will collapse around itself and they will get some real feedom one day.

    There's a lot of exes who are doing great, many who still cling to the mindfuck like Rathbun and Rinder. I hope my relatives and others will end up like the former ones whom i admire greatly. Many of them post here. (Hubbard's poliocies, i like that typo, will leave it, lol)
  37. amaX Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

  38. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Ah you're an ex. That makes sense. The problem is that you're too emotionally invested to see the value in understanding scientologists. And that, is understandable. But that's still one of the biggest problems with some exes and OG- they're so invested that they kinda loose the ability to consider things objectively when it comes to scientology. Which, again, is understandable.

    Think of it this way. You have your beliefs about scientology and hold them firmly. Now if I just told you that you were an idiot and your beliefs were a load of crap and that you were a bad person if you refuse to let go of those beliefs, how would you respond? That's what I, and I think the other poster are talking about when he or she says that dialog and understanding are really the only ways to change minds which is really the only way to make these ideas perish. Yup.
  39. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I'm done going back and forth, i was in for a very short time. There is NO discussing with hardcore Scientologists. I understand them quite well, they only care about KSW, Nothing else until they wake up. We disagree, to me you don't understand but you haven't dealt with them like i have so you may not know, which is understandable. I for one have little respect for your opinions and you are free to feel the same. No more of your condescending little bs comments please like that, is that understandable?
  40. Herro Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I just calls em like I sees em cupcake. And I never said I disrespect your opinions.

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