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RECENT Scilon medical claims.

Discussion in 'Jett Travolta' started by Top Grunge, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. Top Grunge Member

    RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Received confirmation email from journalist simply stating:
    "Thanks, much appreciated"

    so waiting game begins.
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    I will update OP as they are accumulated. I sent a journalist with a HUGE (I mean HUGE) viewer base the medical claims evidence as given in our threads. This thread: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/26-think-tank/gentlemen-tommy-davis-our-response-35912/6/#post687637

    Anyways, journalist got back with me. Seems like he wants to roll with it, but he asked if we can provide RECENT examples of Scilon medical claims as most of the ones listed are Hubbard in the mid 70's and back. He wants recent materials to make the case more effective.

    So, this is a call out for claims within the last decade ONLY. So 98-present. If we can supply this epic win could be assured.

    First: A lot of these are from Dianetics Today...cannot use, too old. A few are from History of Man and All about Radiation. Are these writings still used as CoS doctrine? As in, even though they are old they are still taught it? If so I'll link journalist to the ISBN numbers for the books.

    Second: I will use german journalist that went undercover that is recent. Looking for article now.

    Third: NEED MORE!

    Thanks all, NYPA and all that, but could be huge....also, its not a major news network just so you dont think its that epic.

    Here is the list of current medical claims I will be sending:

    1. From Stern Magazine out of Germany, a journalist went undercover in the CoS. One day he asked a Scientologist about curing diseases, this is a quote from the article translated:

    "I learn that you can heal diseases as a Scientologist. "Skin diseases too?" I ask course supervisor Hermias. He: "Exactly." Me: "And if I continue, can I then cure cancer?" He: "Totally. You are then the cause over the physical universe." Hermias isn't the only one telling me that so cloudedly." -endquote

    article translated: http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1616&Itemid=182
    video of this on youtube, relevant section starts at 2:25:


    Also at 1:28 of the following video he is told he will have mastery over illness.



    4. Tom Cruise to Matt Lauer about Brooke Shields shows him clearly stated Scientology's true view on mental health.

    5. This article shows Ms. Presley in 1999 was making claims about medicine (which she now claims Scientology doesn't do) along with other celebs

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien129.html

    That "Such medicine leads to youth violence". This is at a CCHR protest, CCHR being part of Scientology that Kelley Preston was on the board of. Its all connected.

    6. Story from 2000: http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/kult-epelep.htm

    7. Talk to Tory Christman (ToryMagoo), known CoS critic who claims CoS forced her off medication which caused her to have a seizure that almost killed her.

    ALSO IN EMAIL:
    -How Hubbards word is as good today as it was.
    -Stuff concerning Dianetics
    -Kelley Preston on CCHR board.

    Not in email, sorry, its still good info:
    -Free Stress Test - STRESS IS A MEDICAL CONDITION!
    -Did not totally draw out CCHR connection.
    -
  2. NotBobMinton Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    1. The biggest one I can think of is Narconon/Criminon/Scientology's detox program. They claim depending on which way the wind blows that it (secular/religious) and (removes toxins from the body/is purely religious).

    That Albuquerque mess seem relevant.

    2. Also, Magoo being told to stop taking her anti-seizure medicine.

    3. Look into claims of their anti-psychology branch.

    4. Look into their testimonials printed in their magazines. We got several sources.
    ....

    Most of their medical claims seem to be along the lines of a hood & a wink inside the claim offices to people they have sucked in.

    We need someone with an account on ex-scn.net, xenu.net & ARS to repost this for more data-mining.
  3. subgenius Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Should explain that recent doesn't matter to them. All lrh's words are gospel, then and now. Can't be changed.
  4. mrfyde Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    I see what he is saying but also try to explain to him that those older ones from wiki leaks
    https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Scientology_cult:_Medical_Claims_and_Practices,_1950-1984

    are for training people and that Scientology can NOT BE CHANGED from what L. Ron Hubbard dictated.

    ALSO There is a thread on Ex Scientology Kids:
    From ESK message board :
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=9370

    The shade of grey: (Having been in charge of medical FOR YEARS in on Sea Org facility, I can tell you this):

    A Scientologist who has a medical condition IS sent to the doctors, in most cases. They do not want to take an unneccesary drugs that would supposedly stop their Bridge progress. So if they go to a doctor who is not a Scientologist, that doctor may prescribe something to them. Many, many, many times that information is sent to a Scientology doctor for a second opinion. There are few (or none) Scientology doctors who work in hospitals. They only have their own little clinics. So when a person needs medical testing, besides simple procedures a clinic can do, they have to be sent to a hospital for testing. But all of it is side checked by this Scientology doctor who can help to see what is "REALLY" needed by the person.

    Anti-seizure medication is (or was, when I was a C/S) the same as psych meds, which the church does not allow. (Does anyone have the reference on Illegal PCs they can post? That is where they talk about medication - and that is where most Scientologists are concerned about taking meds - becoming Illegal PC's).

    Oh, and the aspirin thing too... that is from Dianetics I think. I refused it all my life until I was out. I think many others too. Mainly because it supposedly blocks engrams and makes them harder to run out. Must to feel the pain!!!

    Who really needs to come out and say it? A Scientology doctor.
    ______________
    There was also an astra woodcraft interview where she explains that Scn's believe being a pervert gives you cancer.
    -----------------
    Hey did anybody think to Harpoon magazines for Doctors ?
  5. Top Grunge Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Second Chance/Narconon too far removed. Not drawing connection to front groups for this. Also, will send Magoo Vid, but thats a personal story with no hard evidence backing it.

    Also, deff having section about Hubbard being right then and now.

    Are the older HCO's still used for training for sure?
  6. orly Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    EDIT: NOTE: Kelly Preston is/was on the board for CCHR.

    If you haven't explained CCHR = Scientology, you need to do that now. Also,

    http://www.cchr.org/media/pdfs/suicide_risk.pdf (saved if you need reup)

    Not a blatant thing, but it's worth looking at. Also, Depakote (the anti-epilepsy meds Jett was on) is considered by them to be a psychiatric drug.

    PS: They're trying to discredit him by showing what awards he's won. It's the last page of the PDF. I think their argument is that "this study that shows sucide rates go down when people are on antidepressants" is false.
  7. none given Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Where do they publish their "win" stories?
    Each pc finishing an action has to write out how it made their life better.
    I will look to see if i can find some of these online.

    Anyone inside could get us a nice fresh stack. they used to be posted in the hallways.
  8. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Video: Scientology scandal 2, undercover - Reportage germany report scandal scientology - Clipfish

    this is from the undercover investigation by german station RTL which happened less than a year ago in the Berlin Org

    in the org he asked about a few statements and these were confirmed on hidden camera (at 1:17):

    to have handled in principle all illnesses
    not only snifles, flu or cold, but everything
    you don't have to go to the doctor anymore in principle


    Video: Scientology scandal 1, undercover - Reportage germany report scandal scientology - Clipfish

    here is another excerpt from the conversation, in which he asks and gets confirmation that he will be "master of the cancer" [to be in control over cancer]
    1:28
  9. subgenius Member

  10. SickLab Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Recent interview with an ex on national television that the folks in Canada translated, might be what you are looking for.

  11. orly Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Look at the sources on the wikipedia page -- some of them should be valuable :
    Scientology and psychiatry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Hollywood, Interrupted: SICK: CELEBRITY CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY ATTEMPTS TO CAPITALIZE ON VIRGINIA TECH TRAGEDY!

    Attacking psychiatric drugs, 2007. Again, even if you don't want to go the "SCILON FRONT GROUP" angle, there's still the "And Kelly Preston was involved in this what?" angle (we have PIX of her campaigning against Ritalin, IIRC, and she's ON THEIR FUCKING BOARD).


    Celebrities, fellow Scientologists protest psychiatric drugs

    Attacking psychiatric drugs, 1999, no source, claimed to be from AP.


    The Scientology Story - Part 6B: Suits, Protests Fuel a Campaign Against Psychiatry

    Another news article about it, from 1990.

    Connect: depakote is an anti-seizure medication (this is fact). The CCHR pdf categorizes it as a psychiatric drug (this is a fact). The CCHR campaigns against psychiatric drugs (this is a fact). The CCHR hates depakote (this is extrapolation, and not a hard fact).
  12. TheBitch Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    You can basically include every time Tom Cruise mouthed off about psych meds in that timeframe, as well as LMP, as well as Kelly Preston, then use those to show how the "gospel according to Hubbard" is operationalized by high ranking $cilontololligists in the real world. These $cilebritards ARE making medical claims based solely upon doctrine (evidence that the interpretation of the past is the present) and Co$ related "evidence." The entire 2nd Chance thing is also, as someone said, a prime example of operationalization of "religious" doctrine that has ZERO empirical basis.
  13. Top Grunge Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Case building nicely guys!
  14. anonymized Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Got any documentation on the fact that scilon doctrine cannot be changed to make all old policies/books more valuable/relevant?
  15. subgenius Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Recent is good. Old can be better since it shows how long the scam and its dangers have been known:
    Emphasize that this is not a new issue. Article from 2000
    Scientology --- Scientology Kills Epileptics-- Heribert Pfaff
    http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/kult-epelep.htm
  16. LRonAnon Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    What about Uwe, Dying so young. I admit we have no dox directly but it just as odd as Jett's death.

    Fairly young with a treatable condition and dies from it.
  17. Top Grunge Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    ok thanks all, writing email now. hopefully will pay off. if not i suck cock.
  18. Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    One would assume that with all of the 'millions' of Scilons in the world, that they would have at least one medical Doctor to back up their claims. I don't recall ever hearing one speak up.
  19. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    scientology page (proxy!) as a source: Scientology: Code of a Scientologist

    If you consider old stuff too, there's of course the idea that a Clear doesn't need glasses anymore and has improved eyesight. If you have problems with your eyesight it's clearly a medical condition.
    Also, the entire idea of OT is to be in control over MEST as a free thetan and MEST is matter energy space time and if you control those, illnesses can simply be postulated away. So no need to see a doctor.
  20. Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    I'd point out to the journalist that "Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health" is their basic text and their key recruiting tool, it is sold currently and heavily promoted at all the orgs and the stress test booths.

    As you know, it is crammed with ridiculous medical claims.
  21. AnonLover Member

  22. ARC Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    FREE STRESS TEST

    That they can diagnose and treat stress. Yes, it's not very specific, but it may be a medical claim.


    Dianetics quotes should also be used since that is still the introductory book, and actively used in recruitment.

    Update: Not just the claims in the book, but the cover still says "The modern science of mental health".

    Keeping Scientology Working (KSW)

    Hubbard can revise things. Others can not. It's always held to be perfect - even when Hubbard comes on and says he's discovered some faults in the tech and have updated it. The tech is always perfect.

    --
    Update:
    You may come across Scientologists trying to misdirect by saying that Dianetics is the modern science of mental health, but that Scientology only deals with the spirit.

    PROTIP: When the journalist asks about Scientology, (s)he should say Dianetics AND Scientology, since Scientologists may use this false dichotomy to mislead without saying anything which they themselves consider false.
  23. DarthXenu Member

  24. orly Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    http://www.cchr.org.au/pdf/The_Side_Effects_of_Common_Psychiatric_Drugs.pdf

    LIST OF PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS. I haven't had the time to check for highlights, but if any of you are on medication and the medication's like, saving your life or making you feel less miserable or whatever, check for it in this list and tag it, ESPECIALLY if it's accepted as a drug that's not, y'know, terrible or a crapshoot or whatever.
  25. orly Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.


    THIS. A 2000+ edition of Dianetics counts as current beliefs.
  26. LRonAnon Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    DM in the 2007 Summit video (video #2)

    The first 5 minutes of the video makes its fairly clear.

    Seems related to this thread also
  27. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Dianetics: The modern Science of Mental Health was also revised, reprinted and resold in 2007 which makes it pretty darn current. This version was also endorsed by David Miscavige, the current leader of the cult, as being the most accurate and complete version to date etc.
  28. Top Grunge Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    emails been sent guys...good points, i gave them a link back to this thread for everything I didn't fit it (which was a lot honestly). So he can find everything here. Also left it open for more conversation with them.
  29. themadhair Member

  30. TheBitch Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    dontmake's point is CRITICAL (I said it in all caps so you have to believe me). Srsly tho, it is absolutely the crux of the sales pitch for MANY MANY people who, for example, join $cilontololligy because either they or a loved on have a chronic illness. That book is their PRIMARY SALES TOOL and it contains a HUGE number of false and unsubstantiated MEDICAL claims that are used to rope people in with the promise of false hope for "cure" where perhaps, again for example, medical science can at best offer sustaining meds with known potential for side effects.

    The $cilons try to style their pitch as though the ONLY side effects of $cilontololligy are positive ones. Reality is, as we know, quite different.
  31. RightOn Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    I used the Way Back Machine for the followwing:
    2002
    Use Dianetics to get rid of the reactive mind—the source of your:
    Stress
    Depression
    Anxiety
    Psychosomatic aches and pains
    Negative feelings
    Fears
    2002 CCHR Website: "Warning: Before you stop taking any psychiatric drug, you need to seek the advice and assistance of a competent non-psychiatric medical doctor."
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I also read that they said the can cure veterans from Agent Orange by 97%. Read that somewhere, now I can't find it...
    (Not to be confused with the AO. LOL.)
    But try here:
    Scientology Unmasked - Scientology reaches into schools through Narconon
  32. ARC Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Can you update the OP with the points we've added, so the journalist will only have to read the first post? Maybe have it like this: "Points 1 through X are in the email, while points after X have been added after the email was sent"
  33. LRonAnon Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Not just Depakote, it also had many of the other medications that could be used to treat him.

    You know....we are doing the Travolta's a huge service that may keep them out jail.
  34. themadhair Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    From the Irish CCHR site today:
    Disclaimer
  35. TheBitch Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Let's not forget their usual "evidentiary" offering of choice.. the "win statement" coupled with a HUGELY DRAMATIC CLAIM OF SUCCESS!!

    RehabilitateNZ / Purification Program® dislodges toxins AGENT ORANGE CHERNOBYLxS DEVASTATION

    The business front websites where the claims are made publicly are a goldmine and trace directly back to the cult and its minions again attempting to operationalize the "results" of their belief set by defrauding the public with outrageous claims.
  36. subgenius Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Sweet quote from your nice find:
    Scientology and mainstream medicine


    In public statements, especially to newcomers, the Church claims that it has no problem with Scientologists taking drugs prescribed by a physician. However, the Church has a long history of opposition to drugs and medical treatments of any kind but their own. In their Narconon materials, they explicitly state that all drugs are poisonous and remain in the body permanently. Several former members of Scientology have reported being ordered to stop taking their prescription medications, and being warned that they would suffer negative consequences if they continued to do so. [1] Narconon is not associated with Narcotics Anonymous which is sometimes abbreviated Narcanon. Scientologys Narconon is a rehabilitation program for drug abusers in several dozen treatment centers worldwide, chiefly in the United States and western Europe. ...

    In 1965, Hubbard wrote that Scientologists taking courses were barred from visiting a doctor without express permission from the Church, except in cases of severe emergency. (HCOPL 26 July 1965 "Release Declaration Restrictions, Healing Amendments).
  37. ARC Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    From R. Hill at ARS:
    Scientology Promo Flyer
    Copyright date 2004.
    (With full scan and text)
    (These sentences are about SCIENTOLOGY, specifically.)

    It's just "alleviate", not "cure", but much medical treatment is about alleviating disease anyway. Doctors usually don't completely cure epilepsy, they stop the seizures with medications or reduce the power of the seizures.
  38. orly Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    YES. It's important to point out that what Scilons mean by medical and what normal people mean by medical are not the same. We think epilepsy is a medical condition, and so does everyone else. But not the Scilons, and we need to point that out.


    And, yeah. I feel kinda bad for them, really; the cult's seriously willing to throw them to the dogs if it'll KSW, and, well... "My religion made me do it" is sort of a defense against negligent homicide, right?
  39. RightOn Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    yeah there are PAGES on the Way Back Machine wesite
    if you type in Scientology.org

    Very tedious to wade through them all.
    When I typed in CCHR.org, it didn't come up with anything. Unless I am typing in the wrong thing? Or maybe they squashed it?

    I only found the 2002 CCHR disscalimer by going to one of the dates posted and linking and linking through the pages.

    I also tried clicking on the many links for "Learning difficulties" they had listed on many of the pages and those went nowhere.
  40. TheBitch Member

    Re: Urgent! Need RECENT Scilon medical claims.

    Precisely...

    Usmagazine.com | News - Lisa Marie Presley: Don't Blame Scientology for Jett Travolta's Death

    "Just like anyone else, if one is sick, they go to the doctor. If a medication will make it better, then they take it. If they don’t, then they are an idiot, and you can't blame their religion."

    - Lisa Marie Presley

    Talk about setting people up while desperately searching for SOME sort of plausible deniability!

    Got to love their use of the general to the particular. Could not BE any moar fucked up when it comes to firehosing blame everywhere but right at home.

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