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Request to Hilary Clinton - The Persian Gulf.

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by JohnDoe, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. JohnDoe Moderator

    The Clinton name is highly respected amongst Iranians. In the recent US elections many Iranians in the US supported Hilary Clinton.

    We request that Hilary Clinton refer to the Persian Gulf, by its correct name ie The Persian Gulf, as in the international agreement, and not by that unknown name, which is an insult to Iranians everywhere, no matter what their political background.

    The only people who don't care what name it is referred to by, are the unelected regime, who have proved they have no love for Iran, its values or its culture.

    We hope that referring to the Persian Gulf by the unknown name was a genuine mistake from ignorance, which can now be corrected.

    May God Bless Iran and all those who are standing with her for freedom.
  2. are you crazy?

    calling it persian gulf will have no effect within iran

    all it will do is alienate arabs who for their own various agendas support the opposition right now

    there is no difference of opinion on the name within iran. a lot of arab countries boycotted some games in iran because the regime printed persian gulf on the maps on the medals

    i see some really silly ideas being posted here

    and screw clintons too
  3. Visionary Member

    Um...what is this in reference to?
  4. a desert Member

    Some have taken to calling it either 'The Gulf' or 'The Arab Gulf'.


    It may seem like nothing, but you'd be surprised at how much weight it can have. Good examples are the Burma/Myanmar debates and the Tokdo/Takeshima (S. Korea/Japan) argument- it may seem like something, but choosing one name and sticking with it has a tonne of political weight- you're clearly choosing a side, or at least it might look like that. If Clinton calls it the Persian gulf (which is really what most people call it) it lends legitimacy to the Persians. It only makes half-sense, but that's pretty good from a political standpoint.
  5. JohnDoe Moderator

    BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | US 'will repel nuclear hopefuls'
    In Hillary Clinton's recent trip to Thailand she referred to The Persian Gulf as the Gulf

    Perhaps you need to study the documents in the UN. This is a very old argument that was sorted out before the Islamic Revolution.

    "If any international documents or agreements refer to The Persian Gulf by any other name, they will not be recognized"

    No one can argue with the carvings in Perspolis - carved 25 centuries ago.
  6. ramin.ger Member

    hi,

    are we taking about the sea ? ... i hope so. If not i am very sorry.

    for me it means very much to me that is named Persian Gulf and not Arabian Gulf, that i read on several maps yet.

    i have doubts that i am right, and we are really talking about the waterarea :D , but i didn't know that Hilary is an icon for iranian women .

    like that idea,

    so long !
  7. JohnDoe Moderator


    Yes we're talking about The Persian Gulf!
  8. i think her saying 'the gulf' is intentional so as not to alienate arab countries
  9. JohnDoe Moderator

    Well then she too needs to check the UN documents on this matter!
  10. It has always been called the Persian Gulf, for as long as I can remember. Clinton calling it the Arabic Gulf is just another example of revisionism, and her blatant ass-kissing to the rich bastards in the gulf states.

    Clinton is an ass-kisser, who sells out and plants her lips on the ass of whoever pays her the most money. Always has been, always will be. Nothing she says matters.

    And this particular name change, it is a hidden insult from the sheiks in the gulf states, motivated by nothing more than pettiness. That is why it is insulting. Not the name itself, but the fact they hide this insult under such a innocuous disguise, and then play stupid when they are called out about it.

    We know what they are doing. But don't worry about Clinton. No one with half a brain cares one way or the other what she says. The ones that do weed themselves out for you and reveal themselves as the morons they are.
  11. I had no idea this was discussed in the UN. Which UN documents are these discussions in? I think all UN documents are made available online.
  12. I will never call Burma Myanmar. Myanmar is a name made up by a small group of murderous killers, intended to confuse people and make them forget about Burma, and to further isolate the country from the attention of the world so they can kill their own people away from prying eyes.
  13. ramin.ger Member

    as far as i know the error accured in the late 90's when some french geographic scientists, in order to create a deatailed map of this area, called the sea "Arabian Sea". I refer myself to an series on arte.tv, that is called in german "mit offenen karten / les dessous ( i will add a link in a moment )" . ...
  14. JohnDoe Moderator

  15. >>>> lol!! <<<<
  16. i dont understand what this has to do with the current situation inside iran. nobody is dying or fighting against the regime over the name of the persian gulf.
  17. a desert Member

    I don't either. And there are countries who still call it Burma officially (the UK comes to mind- at least on the BBC webpage). Everyone in my family still calls it Burma as well.

    It can be argued as a matter of principal, political weight, or race relations. I have noticed that there are strains of anti-Arab sentiment in Iran amoungst ethnic Persians, at least with some of them. If Clinton calls it by it's proper name (insofar as I'm aware) then she is lending weight to the Persian people. Because some of this anger has been roused due to the belief (rightly or wrongly, I'm not the one to judge this) that the imposition of strict Islam was brought about by Arabs, her calling it the Persian Gulf lends an appearance of being on the 'Persian' (re: not regime) side.


    It seems like nothing, but it means a lot. Again, the Tokkdo/Takeshima example has relevance.
  18. but the regime uses the term persian gulf
  19. She's giving a speech at The Ohio State University
  20. a desert Member

    * shrugs * Looking at it objectively, I don't particularly give a shit, as it's a body of water and wouldn't care if I called it a pig-humping zionist. However, politically, morally, and for the sake of our friends in Iran, I call it the Persian Gulf.

    It's extremely complicated and from a non-political or nationalist p.o.v., it means nothing; it's just letters arranged in a certain way. But it matters to some, quite deeply.
  21. Her calling it that, especially now, is just insulting the people or Iran at their lowest point, adding injury to insult. It is bad enough that the world governments try everything they can do to look the other way while the people of Iran die, but now they tell them they have forgotten about them again with this insult. It is like spitting on an injured person on the sidewalk, and then stepping over them and whistling a tune.

    This is what Clinton said when she said that: "Iran? Who is Iran? I don't know any Iran?"
  22. I remember all the crap the media gave Bush for calling it Burma when the monks were getting slaughtered. He knew what was up, but apparently the media is a little behind on their facts.

    Calling it Myanmar is an insult to everyone the government that named it Myanmar has killed. It is Burma.
  23. a desert Member

    That I agree with, hence my statement before- that for political and moral reasons, I call it the Persian Gulf.

    Politicians only have one thing in common, and that is there utter uselessness. I am by no means an anarchist, but I understand the feeling that gov't is more harmful than good.
  24. Visionary Member

    Hmmm, I'm not certain that she was intentionally avoiding the name "Persian Gulf". Honestly I've never heard it called anything but "Persian Gulf" before. So I'm not so sure that she meant anything other than to refer to it in more familiar terms. (for instance, if it had been mentioned earlier and she was just calling it "the Gulf" for convenience sake).

    I don't really see anything obviously wrong with her not using the full name. It seems to me like something anyone would do when talking about it and assuming that it was clear which gulf was being spoken about.

    (For example if the topic were Mexico and the region and she referred to "The Gulf", it would also be obvious what she meant (The Gulf Of Mexico) and I doubt people would get in an uproar over it).
  25. JohnDoe Moderator

    I agree with you.

    For Iranians this is huge, it is not a joke to Iranians.

    They remember what happened with the Caspian Sea. In the time of the USSR it (the USSR) had 51% and Iran had 49% of every resource that was in the Caspian sea. When the USSR collapsed each of the countries wanted their own share, and with American backing Iran's share was reduced to 11%!!!!!!!

    So for Iranians it is vital that they hold unto The Persian Gulf, and with Hillary Clinton kissing the ass of the rich Arab countries, by calling it The Gulf she is again insulting the Iranian people - and is sending the wrong message to the Iranian people, which could even be interpreted as 'any attempt by the Arab countries to change the name will be backed by the US govt.'

    Not a good message at this time!
  26. JohnDoe Moderator

    Intentionally or unintentionally, at a time when the people are struggling for their freedom, is a real kick and insult to them, they hear it very differently to you I can assure you.

    The US agreed years ago that they would only refer to that body of water as The Persian Gulf:

    "In the United States, Persian Gulf has been the label sanctioned for U.S. government use [12] since a decision by the State Department's Board of Geographical Names in 1917: As recognized by the United States Board on Geographic names, the name of the body of water that lies between Iran and the Arab states of the Gulf Cooperation Council is the Persian Gulf. For political reasons, Arabs often refer to it as the Arab or Arabian Gulf.

    so for her to use anything different is very wrong on her part.
  27. a desert Member

    I grew up during the first war in Iraq and I never heard anyone refer to it as anything besides the Persian Gulf. Hell, I knew about the Persian Gulf before I know about the existence of Persia or Persians.

    Also, there's really no hot dispute between the US and Mexico about what we call the Gulf of Mexico. No one cares. This is different. It strikes me that Clinton is just being a politico. Which makes her like the rest of them.
  28. Visionary Member

    She didn't call it the Arab Gulf or anything like that. I don't know....
    I see the point you all are making, but I'm not sure how much I can agree.

    If she is intentionally not calling it the Persian Gulf to not offend the Arab Nations, then shame on her.

    But on the other hand I can't support the idea (not sure if anyone is putting it forward or not) that it's appropiate to get seriously angry any time anyone refers to the Persian Gulf, as "the Gulf".
    That's taking an understandable sensitivity over the issue nearly to the point of obsession in my opinion and not a safe road to travel down.
  29. consider........

    If she had said Arabian Gulf instead of Persian Gulf- there would have been the same outrage from a differnt sector....

    you simply cant please everyone....

    all though being neither this nor that helps ;)
  30. Vee Member

  31. atmasabr Member

    This is one of the stupidest topics I've ever read.

    If I were giving a big speech and I were short on time, I'd be tempted to shorten the name, myself. You people are much too sensitive and need to focus on the more important things in the world.
  32. JohnDoe Moderator

    It's only stupid if you're not Iranian.

    If you're the Secretary of State of the world's most powerful nation, you cannot afford to use shorthand, if it's on a subject of great sensitivity to the people who value its name, and well understand what referring to it as "the Gulf" means. It's all about politics.
    Remember last week someone on here was upset at people interchanging Iran/Persia? They felt pretty strongly about that. Well this is the same thing. It's about identity & history.
  33. I actually laughed at that one. Scary.

    And the word Muhammad is in my capatcha. Double scary.
  34. maxoud Member

    It IS very important among the Iranians to call it persion gulf.
    It has been persian gulf all along history.

    the regime likes Islamic things better than national things. but there are some diffrences between the regime and its people.

    even there is an online petition to National Geographic Society to bring back the name of persian gulf in its maps.

    Sign the Persian Gulf will remain persian Petition

    more than a hundred Thousands of Iranians has sign it up to now.
  35. Ray Murphy Member

    Yes, of course it's the Persian Gulf, although it has often been referred to as "The Gulf" for the sake of brevity, when the listener knew that a person was referring to the Persian Gulf - which happens all the time for geographic locations.

    I would imagine that the issue will largely disappear in most parts of the world after the current Iranian regime is dislodged and Iran becomes a good tourist destination and people around the world discover that Persia and Persians didn't quite disappear after all :)

    This reminds me of something that happened several months ago. Perhaps I shouldn't admit it in such a public forum but I will. My wife came home and mentioned that she had met a couple of very nice young men from the Middle East, and said they said they were Persian. She asked me what country that would be - thinking that "Mr know-all-Ray" would have the answer.

    I was stumped for an answer on that occasion - of course I knew about old Persia, and Persian rugs, and the Persian Gulf but I wondered what the hell happened to the country of Persia. I ended up telling her that the men might have come from Iran or Iraq - and that perhaps old Persia was 50/50 Iran and Iraq. I still haven't looked up the history.

    Talking about old place names. A few years ago someone on the net directed me to some very old maps, and I was fascinated by the old style of mapping and all the old familiar names that I'd forgotten about.
  36. it's a sign. you must convert now. :D
  37. Arabian Gulf????? Absolute Rubbish! Please sign the petition for the ever lasting Persian Gulf.

    Immediate and unconditional deletion of “Arabian Gulf” from Google Earth Petition
    Source: PetitionOnline.com - Free Online Petition Hosting
    Immediate and unconditional deletion of “Arabian Gulf” from Google Earth Petition, hosted at PetitionOnline.com
  38. atmasabr Member

    And why on Earth should an Iranian try to play the speech police game on a non-Iranian? Senstivity cuts both ways.

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