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Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Kha Khan, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. Kha Khan Member

    Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    The Church of Scientology retroactively rescinds, cancels and abrogates the confidentiality of religious confessions.

    From a comment by Karen De La Carriere / Jentzsch (Karen#1) on Marty's blog:
    Forgive me if, as an ex-Scientologist, I think this is very important.

    As I explained elsewhere, and as referenced in the HCOB of 30 March 1960, normally when one is given a security check (sec check) that can and will be used against them for the purpose of a "Justice Action" and will not be kept confidential, they are given prior warning (or in Scientologese, the "R factor" or reality factor) by use of the phrase "I am not auditing you." If the auditor begins the security check by using the phrase "I am not auditing you," then you know that it is a true sec check that will not be kept confidential and can and will be used against you in a "Justice Action."

    If, on the other hand, the auditor does not say the critical words "I am not auditing you," then it is a true confessional that, at least per Scientology scriptures, should be kept confidential and cannot be used against you in a "Justice Action" or any other purpose."

    What Karen is saying is that even when the prior confessional was a true, religious confessional, and not a sec check, because the parishioner was not given the warning of "I am not auditing you" and therefore the parishioner had a reasonable expectation that the confession would be kept confidential and would not be used against her in an "Justice Action" or for any other purpose, the COS would retroactively rescind, cancel and abrogate the confidentiality of the prior religious confession with no prior warning.

    The bottom line is that if a person sees a Church of Scientology Auditor and Minister to give a true religious confession (and not a sec check), is not given the warning that the Auditor and Minister is not auditing them, and properly and reasonably believes, per the scriptures of the Church of Scientology, that the confession will be kept in confidence and will not be used against them in a "Justice Action" or for any other purpose, that confidentiality can be retroactively rescinded, canceled and abrogated at any time without warning or recourse.

    ESMB Thread: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    /
  2. lothar Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    OMG scientologist use confessionals against people??!!

    Where are my fainting vapours?? Mercy me... Someone fetch momma some amyl nitrate.

    Only an ex-scientologist could act surprised to this. See also: any of the many people that Marty and Rinder have attacked in the last decade.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Watch as the tiny tyrant with a loose screw tightens the screws on his flocks...the on going heart hardening tale of a mini midget who was too big for his britches
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    dox please
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    DM you can't keep going if there is nobody left to screw with
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    The sad fact is that session information was never really held in confidence - let alone information obtained from a security check. in the 70's there were flag missions which went and piloted "integrity processing". as part of this auditing one was told that things were not only confidential, but that they were forgiven by LRH, the church, scientology, etc. Nothing was farther from the truth. It was only a matter of time before the guardians office was aware of "whatever" and session data was discussed waaaaaay toooooo freely amongst many whos business it wasn't. culling data from folders was common practice at flag in the late 70's, early 80's.
  7. adhocrat Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    I think you've misunderstood what KK was saying. To a current member of scientology, this should be horrifying. It is a serious betrayal of the member's trust, per scientology doctrine. Whether the sheep will see this remains to be seen.

    We know there is no trust but those inside will see this differently.
  8. lothar Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    What are you talking about? It's like saying the Patriot Act should be horrifying. People don't care, they just say, I have nothing to worry about.. Same thing here. If you are not a traitor and are not hiding crimes, you have nothing to worry about. How does this change anything other than "zomg squirrel miscavige tech".

    Protip: Hubbard changed shit around just as much, they just got rid of his past HCPOLOLOL crap.
  9. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Yes, I think docs of GTFO is appropriate here.
    Too important to leave to rumor.
  10. Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    So this is basically saying that was said in a spiritual setting, with the then-concieved promise of privacy can not only be used against someone, but it can be broadcast? Oh that's dirty. Doesn't that violate the right to privacy? It has too! You cannot publicly tell someone's private facts or unreasonably intrude upon the seclusion or solitude of another person.

    The blackmail threat is getting more hostile because of the major loss of people and the lack of "raw meat" (does this make anyone else think of vampires?).

    The information was never closely watched, as evidence shown in many videos... but broadcasting the details of someone's sex life or messed up childhood shows malicious intent.
  11. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Here is the difference.

    People don't worry about the Patriot Act because they (mistakenly) believe they don't have anything to hide. They aren't making a confession. They simply believe they have nothing to hide if investigated.

    In the COS case, the person has intentionally and voluntarily made a confession with the proper and reasonable belief that their confession would be confidential. They know they "have something to hide" because they confessed. If they didn't "have something to hide," what they did wouldn't be worth making a confession.

    Most importantly, they would not have made the confession if they knew ahead of time that the matter would not be kept in confidence and could and would be used against them.

    In the Patriot Act situation, people do not worry about the Act because they don't think there is anything to be used against them.

    /
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    i lol'd
  13. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    me 2
    new meme??
    ;-P
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    ^ My reaction, except worded better.
  15. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    I wanna see Tommy Davis be put to the question on this one.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Excuse me, I need an interpreter.

    Is the comment quoted in OP stating that there is a Miscavige-issued HCO PL called "The Power to Forgive" which codifies the ability to use auditing confessionals against the members?

    If so, does anyone else confirm this?

    Are there dox? This seems way too significant to claim without documentation.

    Of course, this has always been the practice (using confessions against members). It makes no sense to put it in writing.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    i agree

    also, i appreciate khakhan posting here and there stuff from marty, but i am really getting a bit tired of having comment after comment from his blog posted here.

    they are all a bunch of circlejerkers, and srsly, i dont give a shit what they talk about in the comments. afaik that karen chick is as believable as barbara swartz (sp?) what i mean is, i believe what they say as much as i believe the dmbots. they all have their agenda. so, yeah, dox or stfu. and one of the "independents" saying it doesnt mean it is a dox.

    anyhoot, dont take offense, KK, i dont intend it but i know where marty blog is, i can go there at anitime, i dont need the push :p
  18. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Do ya think so?

    I've said for some time that this organization is a vampirical entity. It charms its victims, then feeds off of their life energies while hypnotically persuading the victims that the parasite is not a horrible [strike]monster[/strike] cult but rather a beautiful, misunderstood, heroic [strike]figure[/strike] religion, unfairly persecuted by the small-minded all around it. The victims then dutifully repeat this line to all who challenge the situation ("you couldn't understand; you've never experienced it for yourself"). The [strike]villagers[/strike] concerned family members who try to fight the [strike]beast[/strike] cult find themselves up against not only a repugnant [strike]monster[/strike] cult capable of viciously evil acts, but also their own beloveds, under the spell of [strike]the trancemaster[/strike] Hubbard's tech.

    Scientology is scarier than a vampire, though: it's real.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    No, it's Hubbard.

    So sayeth "Power to Forgive" Certificate | Scientology Lies
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    I love you like a fat kid love cake
  21. BigBeard Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions


    I'm no fan of Cof$, but to me there appears to be some twisted logic going on here based on a plain reading of the quote in the OP.

    Right from the start, the quote in the OP specifically refers to 'Sec Checks', not normal 'Auditing'. And, in context, "past sessions" clearly refers to past 'Sec Check' sessions, immediately followed by, "future Sec Check Sessions".

    And then the OP gones on to explain confidentiality doesn't apply in "Sec Checks" as long as the phrase, "I am not auditing you." is uttered. And there doesn't appear to be a problem for the OP, as long as it's not a true auditing session.

    So by what convolution of logic does this quote specifically about 'Sec Checks' for a specific individual become official Cof$ policy that confidentiallity no longer applies to "auditing" sessions??

    I say "official policy", as we know what actually does go on related to PC folders, even though Cof$ denies it.

    So, as others have said, dox or GTFO.

    BigBeard
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Perhaps, but with Thomas Kincaid (ZOMG PAINTER OF LIGHT) as your avatar, well...
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Copy of HCO PL from some 'zoner archive:

    fohgivanesspreasecopy2.jpg
  24. adhocrat Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    I wish I'd said that
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Does a SEC CHECK ever not include this? Wouldn't a checkee know it wasn't a 'real' sec check from the outset if not said?

    Logical contradiction.

    Whatever - clearly this inscrutable non-logic is never going to make sense to us wogs.
  26. thetanic Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    A "sec check" will always include "I'm not auditing you." It's supposed to, anyway.
    A "confessional" is a sec check done under confessional seal, so you are being audited and the information is privileged.

    The new piece of information is that Karen was told that the information was retroactively going to be used against her, including prior sessions that had been under seal.

    I'd have thrown the cans down. Of course, I never got as far as Karen did.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Anons need Dox. Scientologists Don't! They've been operating under Miscavige's whim for a quarter of a century now. And many staff know confidentiality is a lie. Since there are few public, and mostly staff at protest sites, this sign would have an effect. The name Jentzsch is still an Icon in scinoland. It will jolt public to maybe look. It will jolt staff that don't know, and those that do.

    This is a Huge deal in scinoland. Or you could take a quote from Amy Scobee's "Abuse At The Top" about Miscavige using Tom Cruise's session folders as fodder for cocktail hour chatter and jokes. It's not like it's anything new. Of Course there's no dox on this, are you kidding? It would dismantle sci in a sec.

    qs0f3c.jpg
  28. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Check, mate.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    And in homage to a J Swift comment, another jolting sign (not Even gonna explain this, but he's correct on Huge jolting button all sci's have right now)

    30t3vpw.jpg
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    ^^^
    THIS - not seeing what the OP says in the actual quote.

    Seems all that happened was David Miscavige decide to countermand any previous forgiving that some lesser authority might have done.

    Surely the pope could decide to un-forgive a Catholic previously forgiven by a mere priest so why can't Miscavige... but wait, Catholic confessions are not recorded and sent to the Pope for review so how would he know what to un-forgive? Well if they were....
  31. AnonyMary Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    remember when CoS had the cover of PC folders state words to the effect of

    priest penitent privilege ?
    Priest-penitent privilege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Like they had priests, lol It was all part of the CON
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    "The sad fact is that session information was never really held in confidence - let alone information obtained from a security check. in the 70's there were flag missions which went and piloted "integrity processing". as part of this auditing one was told that things were not only confidential, but that they were forgiven by LRH, the church, scientology, etc. Nothing was farther from the truth. It was only a matter of time before the guardians office was aware of "whatever" and session data was discussed waaaaaay toooooo freely amongst many whos business it wasn't. culling data from folders was common practice at flag in the late 70's, early 80's."

    It never took Special Missions, or occurred in Certain times, or Locations, Or orgs or any of that. It Always Occured Everywhere All the Time from the very beginning. Just wanted to get that straight.
  33. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    Yes, you are right. I saw this happen a lot. Guardian's Office felt it was a supreme authority and did not give a damn about individuals.
  34. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    I remember that. It was a special op by Guardian's Office to prevent pc folders being seized by authorities during litigation and criminal investigations. it was totally a "legal" move, not to apply to internal use.
  35. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Retroactive cancellation of confidentiality of religious confessions

    More stories, one pseudonymous but also one with a name:
    Grades auditing is NOT an "I am not auditing you" sec check. Per policy grades auditing should be confidential.

    /

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