RIP David Vantrease

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by muldrake, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Thank you. Yours is the best post that I have seen on this whole thing. They didnt have any relations, and this particular place was no cult. They got me clean, they got David clean, and countless others clean. Sure the Church of Scientology is one big scary machine, but its a machine that had NOTHING to do with this. RIP David.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Anonymous Member

  3. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Just a thought from someone who knows the situation INTIMATELY....sometimes people NEED to have certain ore behaviors changed. If injecting drugs into your veins is a core behavior of a person, that is something that needs to be changed. Thats what this facility did for me, because of people like David.
  4. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    David was the smartest guy Ive ever known. If anyone knew how to use the internet to look up ANYTHING (much less the very company he worked for) it was David. He had no need to look for truth, he knew it. He worked at a place that did a TON of good for people (like me) that are not scientologists. He was not a scientologist. David was the smartest man I ever met and I loved him dearly, and it breaks my heart that people that didnt ever know him until they read this blog are all spending their time making assumptions about him and his death.
  5. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    This death had NOTHING to do with it. Please, can everyone just back off. NONE of you know what you are talking about in this situation.
  6. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    how dare you say this? this was a person of more value than you can even imagine. this was someone i loved. even if you are just kidding, you are kidding about someones son, and the best man that i have ever known. i can't believe someone would say that about one of the best people to ever be in my life. you are the absolute worst post on this whole thing....this long list of strangers who are all sitting around talking about my best friend. arbitrarily and without any knowledge of the situation. most of you, without any concern for the people who are grieving and who are trying to rearrange their lives after such a tremendous loss are...... well, there is no words that can describe this.....
  7. Re: RIP David Vantrease

  8. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Dang Straight Zak
  9. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    there is NO WAY that he thought that. I PROMISE. He thought all that type of stuff was looney tunes. We used to talk about it all the time. How it was all "deeply insane" Id imagine hes almost laughing somewhere because of this comment.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    You're right. None of us know precisely what you're going through. Although some of us, like Smurf, know what it is like to lose someone we love to suicide. Still, we wouldn't want to assume that we know how you and David's family are feeling.

    Please don't assume that any post on this board represents anyone other than the individual who posted it. There are plenty of people here who are fighting Scientology because there have been too many tragedies directly and indirectly caused by Scientology and WE DO CARE. So, we keep our eyes peeled for any connections that the Scientologists try to keep hidden. Sometimes that means we dig up a factual situation, think about it, then reach a view that Scientology wasn't responsible.

    I don't know enough about David's situation to know, but I hear what you say. I'm glad you were able to get off drugs, and David too.

    My sincere condolences for your loss.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Thank you for making a decent comment on here. So many people are not being very thoughtful, but you were.
  12. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Well, then, why don't you tell us the details we don't know? Why berate us for our ignorance and then not inform us?

    I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend, and I would certainly like to learn more.
  13. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    This is all completely crazy, insane stuff you are talking about there. I agree, David would have agreed. Actually he would have found an article like this on his own and read it and thought that it was insane. That is the only relationship between him and this sort of....stuff (for lack of a better term) His death had nothing to do with anything that this whole blog has been about.
  14. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I honestly think that since it has nothing to do with scientology its none of your business? Why would you want something as tragic and horribly sad as this death in your life? It has shifted my entire existence. Forget about it. This is indescribable pain.....The details are not yours to know because you did not earn them by suffering with those of us that do know the details.
  15. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Why are you even talking about this?
  16. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    dox? documents?
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Then why are you here? I understand that you're in a great deal of pain, but we didn't cause it.

    Lashing out at us will not help you.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. grebe Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease


    Every time a Scientologist dies and its in the news, someone new comes to to chastise people for failing to display an appropriate level of sympathy.

    Weird, huh.
  19. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Weird, indeed. So far I've been giving our new poster the benefit of the doubt. That could change.
  20. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I would like to add that I am not in any way endorsing the church of scientology. only the hardworking individuals that I had the privilege of knowing in Battle Creek, though they may be spread all across the country now. People that saved my life and the lives of many others. While I was there it was Narconon Stone Hawk. And yes it was crazy and unbelievably weird. BUT...I wouldn't be alive, or happy, or anything that I am today without the people there. Especially David.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    You don't seem very happy.
  22. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I will not argue, and I understand your suspicions because I know this subject very well because, yeah I worked at Stone Hawk. For almost a year. It was crazy, but the people from that place and time of my life are very precious to me. I have a great life now, and I wouldn't have it without them. And the most precious of all those relationships was with David Vantrease. You cant blame me for defending what I love. I am sitting here, in more pain than I could have imagined a week ago....and I am no stranger to pain...asking you to please just be respectful. And know that his death is in no way related to any of the subject matter on this page. He was not a scientologist. Scientology had nothing to do with his death. I can guarantee you that.
  23. xoixoi1 Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Sad really. Rather than that, things like this should motivate us ... to end the abuses and suicides.
  24. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Once again, I am sorry for your pain. But you have said nothing that persuades me Scientology had nothing to do with his death, and you refuse to provide any clarifying information. I cannot accept your guarantee.

    So, until I hear otherwise, I'm very inclined to believe Scientology had quite a lot to do with his death.

    If Narconon helped you, it was quite by accident. Furthermore, they have harmed so many other people that your happy accident in no way changes my opinion of them.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    This ^^^
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    You cannot herd cats. Anons will or will not show respect individually.

    This hissyfit you're throwing will do nothing to deter the less than polite, it will only goad them further.

    Believe it or not, I knew of David. He wasn't more than a casual acquaintance to me, but I'm sad that he's gone. That said, there IS a long history of suicides relating to Scientology and Narcanon. This makes it necessary to scrutinize cases like this.

    And you're protesting our suspicion of Scientology awfully loudly for someone who's in mourning for a loved one. I can't say if you're being honest or not, it's just that your particular focus seems a little off.
  27. grebe Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Chanology evolved in reaction to Scientology tech, and the tech is essentially an insidious form of emotional blackmail.

    How best to resist someone prodding and testing to find your ruin? Your guilt? Your shame ? By fearlessly demonstrating a lack of shame or moral commitment, as in, "They came for the cake and lulz, amirite?'

    Don't be fooled. Anonymous is no stranger to pain either.

    Scientology isn't worthy of your love or efforts to defend it (I assume that's what you're doing as Scientology is what's under attack here, not Mr. Vantrease).
  28. AnonyMary Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Gee, why didn't you look it up before you came out with that baloney?

    Most likely he had a loved one who suffered from it because it extremely rare in males.

    Rett syndrome is a unique developmental disorder that is first recognized in infancy and seen almost always in girls, but can be rarely seen in boys.

    Rett syndrome has been most often misdiagnosed as autism, cerebral palsy, or non-specific developmental delay

    Rett syndrome is caused by mutations on the X chromosome on a gene called MECP2. There are more than 200 different mutations found on the MECP2 gene. Most of these mutations are found in eight different “hot spots.”
    Rett syndrome strikes all racial and ethnic groups, and occurs worldwide in 1 of every 10,000 to 23,000 female births.

    Rett syndrome is a developmental disorder. It is not a degenerative disorder.

    Rett syndrome causes problems in brain function that are responsible for cognitive, sensory, emotional, motor and autonomic function. These can include learning, speech, sensory sensations, mood, movement, breathing, cardiac function, and even chewing, swallowing, and digestion.

    Rett syndrome can present with a wide range of disability ranging from mild to severe. The course and severity of Rett syndrome is determined by the location, type and severity of her mutation and X-inactivation. Therefore, two girls of the same age with the same mutation can appear quite different. [..]
    International Rett Syndrome Foundation - International Rett Syndrome Foundation

    That said, after reading his friend's posts here. I suspect David either committed suicide because of pressures or 'ethics handlings' from his job while under management run by the Sea Org; or that he struggled with his addiction and thought he was the exception to the rule that Narconon works, which of course we know doen't in the majority of cases.

    My sympathies to his family and friends who I hoipe wil look further at the suicide and death rates of Scientologists and those participating in Narconon licensed programs .

  29. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I think it's pretty simple what YOUDONTEVENKNOW is saying. There are people on here speculating on the death of our friend in order to use it to support their own arguments against scientology. But there's no substance to your claims. You're saying that David worked at Narconon, and David killed himself, so that must mean scientology is to blame. That is very weak logic, especially because no one saying these things actually seems to know David in the least. YOUDONTEVENKNOW, maybe I have met you very recently because of David's death. I want you to know that this site is not worth your time. These people will never understand what we really lost in David, and as long as they can hide behind the anonymity of their computer screens they will continue to make these insensitive and harmful remarks. They don't deserve to speak to those of us who knew him well. Please remember that.
  30. Lorelei Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Try to see it thsi way, if you can. *IF* Scientology *DID* have something to do with your friend's untimely death, wouldn't you want to prevent other nice people from being harmed?

    *IF* Scientology / Narconon had nothing to do with this person's death (though they HAVE had quite a lot to do with other untimely and equally sad deaths), then looking into the situation changes nothing. *IF* they *DID*, then finding that out and informing others could help someone not wind up like your friend.

    Examining the situation may hurt your feelings a bit, but in the end, examining the situation harms no one if there is no base for the suspicions.

    Also, some people are genuinely sorry for your loss, and distraught because here is yet another person who was well loved who has died prematurely and who, coincidentally or not, has a close association with a front group for Scientology. You can believe that this is "being inconsiderate," but, in truth, it is not.

    Let them find out if it IS just a coincidence. It is not meant to diminish what your friend meant to you. It is a way to honour each person who has died when, by all rights, they really shouldn't have. 28 is far too young.

    Attacking WWP and assuming everyone here is the same, and acts the same, and believes the same things, is a way of being just as full of "weak logic" as you accuse, blindly, everyone reading this thread of being. That is just as "insensitive and hurtful" as, again, you accuse "these people" / this site of being. Perhaps your grief is talking FOR you, and I empathize.

    You know, some people DO find it possible to care about people they have never met, and to grieve for them and their loved ones, and to want justice for them IF--and only IF--justice is warranted. If you have never felt that way, or feel it is impossible for strangers to feel sadness and anger about issues like this, then, well, that is your personal issue, and not ours.

    Perhaps if you were here from day one, and had read hundreds of stories about young (and not-so-young) people who suffered, or got ill, or died, and who also had a close association with Scientology or a Scientology front group like Narconon, then MAYBE you would understand why we are hoping there are no ties, but suspecting that there might be. You don't have to like it, but, then again, you clearly haven't been here reading obituary after obituary, and grieving each time for people who very well might still be with us if they were allowed to take the medicines they needed, or who were not bankrupted, or who had not had someone "find their ruin" and devastate them, or who were lonely for friends and family who had been deemed "suppressive" for stating opinions contrary to those that Scientology approves of, or who tried quack therapies and remedies when physically ill until their physical illness--which might have been "handled" by a traditional medical doctor and traditional medical care--is too far gone to recover from, and so on.

    You either will or won't do your own research and your own thinking. You either will or won't cling to your outrage and fling insults at strangers online who you feel can't POSSIBLY care about your friend. You either will or won't be intellectually lazy and tar everyone with the same brush. In the end, you are freely allowed to make those choices here, even if you end up disagreeing with most people on this site.

    Lastly, you have my sincere condolences. Losing a friend rips your heart out. I am so sorry. I can tell you cared about David greatly. I wish you well.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Youdontevenknow and The Slim Kitty, while I sympathise that you're mourning a loved one, do try and understand that Narconon is only another front group for Scientology and Scientology is dangerous. While some of the people involved might be working from the best of intentions, the fact remains they are aiding and abetting a sinister and evil organisation.

    Thanks in part to the work Anonymous has done over the past two years, there really is no reason you or your late friend should have been unaware of that fact. Even if you all really were living under a rock, you're aware of it now.

    Save your venom for the real villains here, the leaders of the Church of Scientology and not the members of this website, people who give up their free time and money to do what they do.

    As I said, I've sympathy that you've lost a friend. The thing is I've also a hell of a lot of sympathy for everyone who had their childhood destroyed because of Scientology, for every parent who is sitting right now wondering where their child is thanks to Scientology, for the women who felt they had no choice but to abort their unborn children because of Scientology, for the people who lost years of their life and every penny they owned to Scientology and last, but not least, for every single person who has felt the pain you feel right now because someone they cared about died because of Scientology.

    Now both of you take a step back and think about how you've contributed towards the misery and pain of other people in a far more devastating way than a few posts on a forum and when you've done that, then you can come back and ridicule the members on here.
  32. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    ITT: the specimen are responding to stimuli. :)

    {bracing for DBL RAEGQUIT} :cool:

    Thanks, MOM. :rolleyes:

    Oh, and will someone unlazy post one of those graphics the Co$ does showing all the org's front groups with arrows going from the org to the front groups? Will help move the noobs out of denial re: Narconon being Scientology.
  33. happy feet Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I agree 100% and you faggots are so brainwashed on zOMG scientology did it!!! that you have lost all rational reasoning skills.

    I will infract as speculation anything you faggots write from now on that is total speculation.

    People commit suicide all the time. At least you should establish this guy took courses or had some relationship to scientology. Maybe he was just another addict that got tricked and scammed by Narconon, like his friend posting here. Why is this guys suicide relevant?
  34. SticksStones Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

  35. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Rather than continuing to tell us David's death had nothing to do with Scientology, why not just provide your evidence? I have no idea why your friend committed suicide. There are many reasons that wouldn't surprise me at all, and something directly related to Sci is one of those reasons.

    I'm very sorry for your loss, and it's obvious that both of you are in a great deal of pain. But lashing out at people who did not cause that pain while claiming to possess evidence that you will reveal only to people you deem "worthy" seems an odd approach.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  36. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    While I get where you're coming from and that you mean well, telling someone that is mourning their loved one "Dox or GTFO" is pretty harsh.

    If this person was further down the rabbit hole than their friends were aware of, I'm sure it will come to light eventually. Exes love to talk, these days.
    Also, so does the Internet.

    Shoulda left it at that, man.

    That said, the slim kitty and YOUDONTEVENKNOW:

    Please, take a break from the site.
    You're both in a vulnerable state and you're picking fights with strangers; this isn't the best community to turn to when mourning. Nor is it the best place to drop personal information about yourselves. However, you have our condolences - even from some of the most vocal cockgarglers.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I speculate that you will not.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  38. Re: RIP David Vantrease

    Oh, you.
  39. chrisanon Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    I stand by every word I wrote.
  40. grebe Member

    Re: RIP David Vantrease

    So... read any good books lately, YOUDONTEVENKNOW?

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