Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I cant find the bit on protests at all actually... Probably just my retardation... I'll hold off printing for now then
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Perhaps next morning cleanup drive if we go for camping? 5 people per acre per hour would cover litter pick?
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I propose that we keep this a non-camping afair, for this year at least, simply because it would be a MASSIVE job for anon. We can get a one day thing going easily, one step at a time. If we organise the cleanup for the day afterwards we should be safe. If we up the number from 5 to 10 per acre then we should have the site clean very quickly. If we think rationaly, this event could get around 1,000 anon. European fags could get over fairly cheap and I'm sure would love to take part in something like this. Plus you can make it a safe bet that all anons from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland would make the trek to Sainthill. Now, if we add on interest from Joe-Public, the numbers would probably reach 3,000, at least. I think that we could repay anon by allowing them free access to the festival, but only to those who lend a hadning to cleaning up, set up etc.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal ^^Ticket refund after cleanup is complete; not that I am a cynic or anything .
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Perfect. The only is handeling ticket money, but that can be sorted out easily.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Actually I just finished what I'm hoping will be the final edit of the UK info pack. I was going to include a page about Saint Hill but most of the pertinent stuff is covered elsewhere. Out of interest, anybody know how to embed fonts into PDFs using OpenOffice? At the moment it substitutes Trajan Pro for Time New Roman when I export it which is not cool.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Urmm, no I don't, but be sure to wing me the final version - I'm all inked up!
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Just got confirmation from my contact that we are good for a discount on ambulance cover if we end up going >500.:wink: Please PM me for details when needed. Ps. I am Happy to be on the setup/cleanup crew.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Yup, will do as soon as I can figure this font problem out. Hopefully it'll be done by tomorrow evening.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Coolio May have found a way to get them done with ring binding for free/tiny cost (like £1 per booklet) (only a couple of them, not hundreds)
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I've been absolutely swamped with UNI - and will be until the weekend. Will look up more surrounding property addresses on Friday though. Something that has been playing on my mind... I started this thread because I was annoyed at others projecting their low expectations of what could achieved onto all Anon & Enturb - and so please don't let this hold anyone back if they think they can pull more off - but I would encourage everyone involved in this to carefully think about setting realistic, realisable goals, to ensure a WIN and no FAILs. Some people are talking about overnight camps, loads of public attendance, big name bands, thousands of people etc - and if you REALLY think that can be done - by July - then I encourage you to keep going, but I'm also skeptical. To my mind, the target, based on what we're learning so far - should go something like One day - say 6-8 hours - why? Because it'll require less permitting, less noise concerns, easier to get land-holders involved, easier for transport, easier for catering and facilities, less mess to clean up etc etc etc Limit to 500 people - why? Because it requires much less permitting (ESPECIALLY removing a whole objections process that could cause endless delays) - easier for land owner to accept (less damage) - easier to sell tickets if there's a limited number - easier to manage ticketing - easier to monitor for scilon agitators. Limit to Enturbulators and friends etc - why? No advertising costs - easier to monitor for scilon agitators - no hassles with those already involved getting tickets - can sell tickets directly rather than paying an agent - much less risk to property during event The objective, to my mind, should be to have a great time, but to do it on the Scilons HQ doorstep, loudly, so they know anon doesn't afraid of anything. Aiming for something mega, again to my mind, doesn't actually increase the impact on the CoS, puts the whole idea at risk of failure, and while it might massively increase the lulz had, it might equally go the other way if random people or scilon infiltrators manage to cause a ruckass, damage any hired equipment, etc etc etc. So - if the hive consensus is to go HUGE - then go for it - but please first take a moment to think about (and discuss) the objectives, and how BEST to maximise the likelihood of achieving them. tl;dr - If plans too big, there is big risk of failure in many many ways. If plans too small, fail to achieve objectives. Like any project, gotta think about balancing thes objective (impact on CoS, lulz) and the risks. /discuss
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal ^ I'd have to agree here, as much as I'd love something huuuge and everything it is simply not plausible as far as I can see at this stage. Use this, much smaller, event as a starter to get the ball rolling for, hopefully eventually, larger ones- it's not impossible for Anons in other countries to hold their own, rather than having everyone worldwide flooding into Saint Hill...
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal given the time scale we're talking here (a few months) i concur with the previous two posts. yes, an epic festival would be made of ultra-win. but these things are organised many months in advanced by organisations. we work a bit slower because of the communication time. we can't sit in a board-room and discuss things, we have to spend a few days on a forum to accomplish what would happen in an hour in a real organisation. so if we aim smaller this year (makes PAs, stages, licensing, etc much easier and possibly cheaper) with limited tickets (incidentally i'm more than happy to help set up and clear up) But if this year is a success we then have a full year before possibly repeating the event and making it bigger. having a full year to organise it pushes it all through the licensing system, we can book bigger bands (if we so desire) further in advance. basically aiming big for next year leaves us able to acieve 90% more win than if we aimed big for this year.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Also, by having a 'mini' Live Raid this year, possibly just in the one field alongside Saint Hill then we will show to the public and landowners how well behaved we are, including that we clean up (which, while I mention it I might as well say that I'd be up for helping in this, not sure what else I could do to help atm, so yeah...) after ourselves, as well as hopefully raising more awareness, acquiring more people for our side and therefore meaning more support for the next, bigger, ones- particularly from landowners and licensing/ planning permissions people for that- including those internationally.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Ok having helped in a 1000+ event, the paperwork is major buthurt. All the arguments balance. I concur 500 for this year.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Awesome, so I then see the only issue left with numbers is controlling that. I'm sure plenty of people would want to attend, plenty more than 500 however- and in that 500 we would have to include other people such as speakers, bands, first aiders (ambulance crew- if that's still happening with just the 500), media (we'd hope). As the plans seem to show atm- correct me if I'm wrong and I've just missed/forgotten the necessary post(s)- it'd be a "pay at door" affair- which means no control whatsoever over who turns up, and specifically: how many. I propose we go alike you do when signing up to websites and on a "first come, first served" basis. By this I mean for those who wish to attend to e-mail/ PM: somehow, privately, message whoever it is assigned to organising this part of the affair basically with a pseudo-name and, for security purposes, their age, occupation or somethings along the lines of that... though I'm aware a Scilon could easily just lie, so someone else who is cleverer than me might want to come up with something better than that =] (though I do have a few other ideas, but do not wish to divulge so publicly into matters such as security). The organiser of this then replies to each person who has successfully got themselves a "ticket" with either a code/ series of "secret questions" to select from and forward their answer. Then when at the event people come to enter organisers stand at the entrance with records of all these details and people are allowed in only by being identified from the records and after authentication of it being them. So, I think this is plausible, the only thing I'm unsure on is how the messaging/ applying could work, what we could use. It'd need to be something where you can easily reply to multiple people at once, is secure, has lots of memory available, but can also possibly restrict content of messages being sent in (specifically, applications and authentication messages) somehow. A general public face page would also need to be set up through which people can send more general queries and we can include a FAQ.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal How about we use Pledgie or something similar where we can see the list of donors but the public can't. We get people to donate ten pounds (their entrance fee) and either use a random string of numbers / their forum name / something to identify themselves, then before the event they're e-mailed a ticket with their information on that they use to get in on the day. That way we can limit numbers, have it anon-only, and we'll have the money before the day so it'll make paying for things that need paying for a lot easier. Plus having a first-come policy on the door would suck because Saint Hill is in the middle of nowhere and we don't want people coming hundreds of miles just to be turned away. So in theory if we got everybody to pay for their ticket a month in advance we could have £5k floating around. I'd say £1k of that would need to go on stuff for the day, maybe £500 contingency and the rest would go to the landowner. Also I don't think inviting press is a good idea. The possiblity for this to all go horribly wrong is much higher than with other ops, plus this should be about reaching Scientologists and celebrating six months of glorious wins. If it works out then invite press next year if we expand.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Basically, what he said ^ first come, first serve = epic failure I'm not sure about emailing but we can work out something
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Either way we're ready to send letters to the landowners now so hopefully we can get this moving.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal The first come, first serve was in relation to people acquiring their "ticket" online- not turning up- the idea being, if you don't have a ticket, don't turn up. Thought that was clear, but wutev.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal If the landowner is getting 3000 for a one day gig see what else he will throw in eg sanitation, access, bins, power, generator, water? If it is a farm there is lots of useful kit available. Tractors / diggers, piping, fencing, ect. As for first aid if someone who is dealing with the permit PMs me with the required cover I will see what I can rustle up.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal If we're keeping it under 500 people, only the police can object, and then on crime prevention grounds. Thus, First Aid is not a requirement, but would be highly beneficial. -- The Licensing Act 2003 (Permitted Temporary Activities) (Notices) Regulations 2005
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Excellent Regarding approaching landowners: As you might have guessed I am a bit rural. And it is my experience that farmers and landowners HATE raves. Damage / mess / cost / invasion of home. This in mind when approaching landowners stress the rally /guest speaker / BBQ party aspects. You will get a lot further. RE. Useful stuff on farms: flat bed bale trailers are just a set of steps short of being a 30by 10 foot stage; minimal cost, minimal setup / set down. Any of this info useful?
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Oddly enough I had a chat with a friend who's into organising events last night, he suggested exactly the same thing - possibly as the event we're helping with in summer uses 3 of those for the main stage (add a RAMP as well as steps though... means you don't cripple yourself shifting kit ) He also said it'd be worth checking out local village halls, churches etc. as often they will hire out staging, lights, PA etc. if they're not using it for considerably less than official hire places. Plus, if it's local then transporting it about gets easier...
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal So far this all looks do-able and plausable. Having ushered/sat in ticket offices/stage-managed/etc before for various smaller events (although having said that the ushering was every night for 3 weeks in a 2000 seater concert hall....) i'll volunteer for ushering and such. plus i still have a bunch of "Steward" hi-vis anon-vests from london, and can get my pinking shears on more if needed. one suggestion i might make is that July is peak crop growing time. my instinct says they're arable fields (i could be wrong though) if they are arable fields, this plan is dead in the water already. a farmer isn't going to let us use his field if it's full of corn/wheat/whatever. if it's a pasture field then it's much more likely to be alright. if it's a arable field we may have to wait until after harvest in september of october for this. whilst having it in the middle of summer would be ideal, experience tells me october isn't too cold for a night gathering. if we put it off to November 5th, we have the added bonus of it being oddly fitting with the masks (although fucking cold) but we could, theoretically have a big bonfire and fireworks... (assuming permissions, etc) i'm just throwing out ideas. but my point about the type of land is probably worth considering. but again. contacting the landowner would be best. so... in all... a largely pointless post.... HOWEVAR! if it is arable land, we *might* be able to sweeten the deal for the landowner if we cover the money he was expecting to make on the crop in the field. (i've no idea how much this would be, but given how much tax there is these days, and how much goes into making a field burst with life, i'd be inclined to say it's be at least £4k a field)
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Buying up cropped field. 3 ton per acre at £120/ ton for wheat plus a years worth of invested time effort and equipment. They are not likely to go for that. There will be a fallow patch or pasture / barn? Somewhere round St. Hill.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Looking at the overhead pictures the fields that we're most keen on could indeed be arable fields. But theres a lot more land surrounding the grounds that we could use. One of them has an adjoining farm and really good road access, and the place across the road is a sports place with its own car park. I'm sure no-one expects this to go ahead exactly as planned so we'll just have to chop and change depending on how it works out. Even if we don't get an ideal spot, we can still hold a great event and go back to whoever owns the best land next year and say "Look how well that went, you want in?"
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Could people make sure there are professional quality cameras/audio equipment there? I have a feeling this would be wasted if it was not recorded.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Yeah, but it is a consideration with the crops. there are options afterall. Was thinking about something as well, we probably wouldn't want an arable field anyway for this event. since after harvest they're covered in painful and annoying stumps.. this and the fact that the ground is broken... so would become mud SO quikly, it's soft, and it's very very lumpy.... i walked carfully across a recently harvested field once and twisted my ankle really badly, and i'm not inelegant (granted i'm also not a ballerina, but you get my meaning) we'd probably want a pasture field or a sports field whatever happened. since they're relatively flat and the ground tends to be relatively resistant to becoming slurry (that's thems grass for you) as for cameras, i think we should try and persuade some tv station or production company that it's worth investing in filming, being a "protest festival organised by no-one" could be a first. (or at least an "among-the-first")
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I also have a bit of experience stage managing - Can help with that... Agreed that the fields look like arable. I've been saying that since the start, and the estimate of £4k a field is a wee bit short of the mark. But who knows - perhaps if they hate the Scifags enough...
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Site 6 looks like it's kind of land we want. Is there anyone close to East Grinstead who can check to see if the visibility is still the same, or the arable land still being there for that matter.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I am up for helping, even if it is just cooking, i make a mean spaghetti bolognese. i would also be up for cleaning, setting up anything that gets me in lol. About keeping the numbers to a minium how about allocating each protesting city a certain number, for example as london is the biggest Protest in the UK maybe they can have 200 places and the other three hundred is spread out between the other cities. Then all the cities can collectively decide out of them who gets to go or just go with the good old name out of a hat trick. i am also up for donating a months pay to the fund even if i dont get a place to go. Even if i am not there i know how much good it would do for Anonymous to show then this really isnt just a fad and we will be here untill scientology corrects its ways, apoligises and throws david miscavige oiff a fucking cliff.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal Another thought... we're wanting all these speakers to come, but most are in America, and as seen from the WBM fund, it is quite expensive to fly them over as well as pay for their keep, so either we're going to have to rely on them feeling compelled to be here and being able to afford it, or through Anonymous' generosity again- and I have doubts it would be as successful as the WBM fund- that was peanuts compared to what we'd need to fly all these people over... This is just my thought for the day really, I don't see there anything else I can do for the moment until we officially have a venue, unless someone wants to prove me wrong...? I should be able to work on some shiz starting from Monday- been currently busy working on "Operation: Pink Noise" locally, so haven't gone any further into my ideas than to just note them down once they've popped into my head. Other thing, a webcast, this would be epic. As we won't be able to have too many people attending and there will surely be lots of disapointed Anons as well as possibly curious and intrigued members of the public this would be good for them. Also, [STRIKE]last thing tonight, I promise[/STRIKE]- if and when we have a site set up and if the webcast is a-go-go then I see another way to make those who can't attend feel involved is allow them to send in "shouts" which could be broadcast live at intervals during the event. Ofc, this would be left very vulnerable to trolls... so it is very possibly a "disregard, cocks" idea. Anyhow, I look forward to hearing of the replies from landowners, even if they are a no-go, it means my mind can rest and stop buzzin' with teh silleh brainstorminz. Oh, and also, thought occured to me- it gets hot and sweaty at the protests under the masks- imagine what it'll be like in the full-on blaze of summer... I assume we can't abandon covering faces but instead of masks, those things people wear over their faces in the desert to keep sand out but is also lightweight- I lack a knowing of their name... Anyhow, what I was getting at being, it might be a good idea to sell/ give away such things there as there's always someone who will forget their face coverinz- possibly with Anonymous designs printed on xD Also, suncream should be ready, and in copious amounts- as part of the first aid kit- which is clearly imperative. But again, I'm just spilling my thoughts as they come, might as well disregard until we have those replies from landowners... tl;dr I are ramblinz.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal It would be wise to talk to a TV station about this. Since we control who is allowed to film, we cut them the following deal: They get exclusive for-profit distribution rights to all video made at the event for one month. Should be enough to get them to spend the 3k or so that a TV team costs for five hours.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal As for speakers at the event we have plenty of choice, Bonnie, James McGugain (curly hair dude from last protest), possibly a couple of others I know of. And as a special treat, Astra Woodcraft might be in the UK at that time, possibly the entire family.
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal If that ^ is anywhere near what you're getting at. But if it's not and it's more just general plans for recording the event, then carry on, I guess...
Re: Saint Hill - Rockanon - a proposal I will go and perform a recon of the area at first light and report back. I'll try to get some pictures too I must stress however I do not live anywhere near East Grinstead / Saint hill. Looks like two or three of those sites are on private land with no reasonable excuse for tresspassing but I'll see what I can do. The site across the road appears to be several rugby pitches one of the fields appears to have hay bales in it. I will be able to tell you more later.
