Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jan 29, 2013.
I miss sparrow. so much.
and the Last Crusade.
Another vote for "Squirrels Nest"
Vote for "Indie-a-go-go"
Judging by most of the responses on this thread, it appears that, this thread at least, is not a place for deep thinkers; so, if trickery is occurring, then don't expect this bunch to notice. They're too busy making fart sounds with their armpits.
As a preliminary, tentative, inexact and gross taxonomy, Tom Martiniano, Steve "Thoughtful" Hall, Jim Logan, and the fundamentalist, strict KSW interpretation, Wahhabi wing of IS:
(1) believe that everything, or almost everything, that is wrong with the "corporate" Church of Scientology is due to David Miscavige;(2) have very little, if any, tolerance for criticism of Hubbard and policies clearly authored by him;(3) want a strict interpretation of KSW, and try to avoid problems with the application of KSW by saying that (a) KSW applies only to red-on-white HCOBs, and not green-on-white HCOPLs, and/or (b) any objectionable policies were not in fact authored by Hubbard;(4) at the very least see no value in and have no patience for "other practices," and believe reading works by other philosophers and thinkers is at best a waste of time; and,(5) while perhaps not at "war" with the "psychs" are much less tolerant of same.
In contrast, Marty, Mike and the liberal wing of IS:
(1) admit that some of the problems of Scientology arise both from policies authored by Hubbard and his personality;(2) will listen to and consider criticism of Hubbard and policies clearly authored by him;(3) admit some policies authored by Hubbard are objectionable, and therefore do not believe in a strict interpretation of KSW;(4) aren't paranoid about other practices, and indeed read and consider other philosophers, thinkers, etc. (note the authors on Marty's recommended reading page); and(5) aren't at war with the "psychs" and will consider psychological and even psychiatric thought (note that Marty's father-in-law is a psychologist, one of the books on his recommended reading page is by a psychiatrist, and another book on the recommended reading page is by a psychologist).
Aw, I was hoping "Marty's Martians" and "The OThers" would catch on.
Another twist: All of a sudden Steve Hall thinks highly of David Mayo, the eternal squirrel. This is of course another shot at his former buddy Rathbun, who was instrumental in shutting down Mayo's organization:
January 30, 2013 - 5:57 pm Thoughtful
Beautiful article, Michael. Thanks for this. Today I saw an incredible video made about the AAC — David Mayo’s group, which was amazing to me because they are talking about the “independent field” and “independent Scientology” and all the same horrors that caused Scientologists to leave in the last 10 years. One of them also talked about the benefit of finally leaving the CoS, that it enabled each person to finally come to grips with their own viewpoints on Scientology — what it is and what it should be. Here’s a link to anyone who wants to watch it.
I’m shocked to know that so many great terminals went before us, saddened a little that I never met them, hurt that I and so many others were walking in the front door of the meat grinder, as they were leaving out the back. Part of me wishes I could have gone with them, gone up the Bridge in a safe environment. For all the talk of “ideal orgs” — listen to what these public and staff say about the AAC. It’s a far more ideal org than anything Miscavige has ever done. Too bad the AAC was eventually destroyed by saboteurs (plants) secretly working for the Church, like Ray Mithoff’s brother. I wonder what has happened to those saboteurs since then and what kind of personal hell they fell into if any. What a horror to kill something so beautiful.
Ok, now I'm getting... spinny. What the hell is Steve "Mr. KSW" Hall doing applauding David Mayo? What is Steve trying to do, screw up my taxonomy?
Are the indies all getting riled up because they sense an end to the cult in the near future and they're scrambling to establish places for the soon-to-be former culties?
More on the KSW Wars....
Hmmm, what could Michael Moore possibly be talking about?
Na, it's just a bunch of people who used to post on the same place until they fell out and now they're going to snipe at each other from the safety of their own little foxholes.
Somewhere, there is old FZ'rs saying "We told you so" over this.
My what a tangled web they weave.
Inb4MartyDisownsNewIndyTrainingCenter calling it bad tech.
Oh, the Internet in microcosm.
Marty Rathbun Is Putting The Band Back Together!!!
Hubbard was never a handsome man.
Thanks. I keep giving them too much credit.
... something Anonymous would never do .......
Wow. Steve Hall is just finding out about this? Jeez.
Davide Mayo ceased being any kind of a Scientologist over twenty years ago.
Hall should read Mayo's 1986 interview with Russell Miller, where Mayo describes Hubbard sadism and greed, and also Mayo's article called 'Clear' from several years later, where Mayo describes how Hubbard's motivation for changes in the "tech," on the topic of Clear, had to do with money and PR.
That right, Steve, Hubbard fashioned the tech a certain way, motivated by the desire for more $$$$ and the desire to enhance his "image."
By the way, Steve, hardly any of the people who had been at David Mayo's AAC still consider themselves to be Scientologists.
What is that supposed to mean?
It's not like Anon's don't bicker.
No they don't
yes they do
People don't run out of the Org when they read OT 3 because they've already done the level OT 2, which is about electronic implants from trillions of years ago on other planets.
They've also listened to Hubbard's lectures which feature quite a bit of "While Track" content, and other weirdness.
They've also read Hubbard's book called History of Man, which presents "A cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years."
The current batch of Independent Scientologists is more secretive about their beliefs than was Captain Bill. They even use the old Scientology Inc. PR handling of presenting OT 3 as an allegory. In other words, they lie about OT 3 to avoid being laughed at.
So riddle me this. What is OT3 an allegory of?
Xenu's rebellion and 'fall' from space and imprisonment in a hot, fiery volcano parallels Satan's rebellion and fall from heaven and imprisonment in hot, fiery hell.
Although that's not because it's an allegory, it's because Hubbard was deeply unoriginal, and the 'fall' of Man (or, in this case, Thetan) from a state of grace to one of debasement is an archetypal myth.
Scientology has been telling humanoids that anything strange or embarrassing, in Hubbard's writings, is an allegory, and they've been doing that for over 40 years.
They're just bullshitting, and hoping the humanoids will be dumb enough to fall for it.
Well, yeah. Christianity's been doing very the same thing with the Bible for a longer time.
I have no problem with people believing whatever weird shit they want to.
It's Scientology's abusive practices that I have a problem with.
without the Xenu story, then how the hell are they auditing all those body thetans away? Which they have more of when they hit OTV and are told that they have more to audit away. (according to what Maria Pia Gardini said when she hit OTV)
or are they not auditing body thetans any more if they get in the Indies?
My guess is that Indie auditing varies by practitioner, from relatively harmless (if untrained and unskilled) amateur counselling, to full-on woo-woo e-meter bells-and-smells alien exorcism 'technology'.
What with personal choice being the point of squirrelism, and all.
But that's only a guess. I'd be interested to hear any actual data on this.
and there are many who don't do the Purif either.
I thought that was an essential thing to do according to Hubbard?
I know some Indies do run their own Purifs like the Warrens and Aida Thomas. But I am pretty sure that many Indies do not do this rundown any more
Another website to keep in mind while searching for new names for the list of exes...
I'd be pissed if I had to pay all that money to audit my body thetans just to get rid of them in the end. Why can't they pitch in?
Serious question, if this new schism group is all about KSW (I think one even said Fair Game and Disconnect are still valid) and Hubbard hard-ons, can they even be considered Exes?
It is worth noting, that Steve Hall seems to insist on a regular basis that SPs cause cancer.
ex members of COS yes
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