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Schism! Fundamentalist KSW Wahhabi wing of Independent Scientology movement gets breakaway blog!

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Dude, Scientology is a psychological system not a religion, and OT 3 is a psychological procedure, and a psychological procedure about which Scientology and Scientologists have been lying for years - and, even with parts of it on the Net, they're still lying about it.

    This psychological procedure - and related Scientology procedures - has been known to induce mental illness in people - people who were earlier deceived by Scientology telling them bullshit, such as "it's an allegory," etc.
    • Agree Agree x 7
  2. Anonymous Member

    Indies schmindies.

    If someone calls himself an Independent Scientologist, then he's advocating the Scientology Grade Chart, thus the OT levels, thus implants and BTs.
  3. wolfbane Member

    Actually, no. Most... but not all. I know a never-set-foot-in-the-church Indy who scoffs at the OT levels, thinks those are all bullshit plus cracks Xenu and body thetan jokes. But the rest of the tech is still his/her kool aid. But they roll it however s/he sees fit and completely ignores how the bridge is defined on the Grade Chart.

    So they are not ALL the same in that regard.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Anonymous Member

    Most are, as in 99%. I'm talking about INDEPENDENT *SCIENTOLOGISTS*.

    That you cite one person proves nothing.

    I can show you a person who calls himself an Independent Scientologist, who pushes a shopping cart down Hollywood Boulevard, and thinks he's the deposed former head of the Galactic Federation, and is OT 19.

    Zowie.

    I'm talking about the vast majority.
  5. wolfbane Member

    Of course you are. But you initially made a statement that was classic black-and-white thinking... which is exactly what Scientologists do with their broad sweeping generalities. And my point is we should know better than that and not become what it is we hate.

    /derail
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  6. Anonymous Member

    The statement I made was accurate. Period.

    There's no other significance.

    Deal with it.
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Anonymous Member

    Classic black and white thinking, as Wolfbane said.
    You cannot possibly speak for all or even most. At best you can say 'in my experience'
    So quit with the B&W, the world's in color now
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Anonymous Member

    Oh please stop the B.S.

    Who do you think walks around calling themselves Scientologists?

    Just anybody? My God, the dishonesty of Scientologists is stunning.

    Are you a Scientologist?

    I bet you won't answer that honestly on the forum.

    Now get back to your e meter.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1


  9. Scientology works and it helps people, even Dr. Phil...........

    Get help yourself, call corporate or independent Scientology..........

    All brands of Scientology work and it helps people to transfer all of their assets to the enterprise and then train to deplete others of all of their assets for the Church. Your work requirement is only for a billion years at 50 bux a weeek, then they all get laid off and collect 30 bux a week for 99 months........
  10. grebe Member

    I think you should call the subforum "Independent Scientologists," with the explanation: "People who self-identify as Scientologists using LRH tech outside the Church of Scientology.

    When you visit a forum for the first time, it's nice to have some organization and guidance that isn't entirely inside-lingo. Too much jargon at the front door creates the impression of, well, fanaticism or immersion in some very insular sub-culture.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  11. Puppetmama Member

    I completely agree with this and were it to come to a vote the adult in me would win out and vote for this, however, the other names are just so much more fun.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Nah . . . the Free Zone would get upset. They too claim to practise Scientology using LRH tech outside the cult and don't identify with the Independents at all.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Actually, that is not true, or at least not entirely. The former Free Zone, or at least a part of it, renamed itself the Association of Professional Independent Scientologists (APIS), still found at http://internationalfreezone.net/, as indicated follows:
  14. Anonymous Member

    Yep . . . that part taken over by the KSW unit of the M&M Show Independents. They are seeking to isolate those who are "squirrel" as non-Scientologists in an effort to protect the tech while Marty and Mike run the Div 6 "acceptable truth" factory.
  15. Anonymous Member

    That's a pretty good summation.

    One thing for sure, the Scientologists and their apologists will never stop bullshitting.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Anonymous Member

    The schism is a lie.
  17. Anonymous Member

    "Squirrel's Nest- The place for all things independent, free zone and otherwise non corporate Scientology"
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  18. Anonymous Member

    Ahhh . . . that's better.
  19. Random guy Member

    No, not by a long shot.

    This use of the term "squirrel" only has relevance to the cult. To us anons, one brand of crazy has no more legitimacy than another brand of crazy. Besides, with Old Liverlips contradicting himself a lot and Miscavige doing everything to get the remaining cultists to buy yet another overpriced bit of blue sky, who are to say whom delivers the most "standard tech" these days?

    Using "squirrel" is a tool to keep the sheep from looking for alternatives. Using the term like OSA would is just playing right into the cults arms.
    • Like Like x 1
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  20. grebe Member

    Ok how about Quack Boosters, for all those LRH inspired quack therapists outside the CoS?

    This way we can troll them all equally without seeming to favor the Independents over the independents.
    • Like Like x 4
  21. Anonymous Member

    Interesting. Now Dani Lemberger is posting on the new blog: Dror Centre continues to grow.

    Dani Lemberger came out as an Independent Scientologist on Marty's blog. See:
    Israel Goes Independent
    The New Israeli Advanced Organization

    Also, while the numbers are small -- indeed puny compared to Marty's blog -- I am seeing more technically trained people (e.g., auditors, CSes) posting on the new blog, and not on Marty's blog. A few other technically trained people appear to be missing from Marty's blog, but have not yet appeared on the new blog.

    I'm not sure what is going on.

    .
  22. Anonymous Member

    Steve Hall made his choice.
    Sooner or later, Marty will make his choice.

    They aren't stupid. They just want a free choice. - I'm sure you understand what I mean.
  23. RolandRB Member

    I hope people are able to openly discuss the Aircraft Door Goals without fear of people snickering!
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  24. Scientology is a religion.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  25. The Wrong Guy Member

    You're lucky you're not an ashtray, because I'd be telling you to move.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  26. Anonymous Member

    fify
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  27. Anonymous Member

    If you think that way, then stop complaining about it.

    If you support Scientology's fraudulent protective cloak of religion, which enables it to get away with so much abuse, then pick up your marbles and go home: Scientology won, the religion angle worked, and chumps, like you, lost.
  28. Anonymous Member

    If you call Scientology a religion, Scientology doesn't really care what adjective you preface it with. It wins.

    Dude, wake up and smell Hubbard's religion angle.

    Scientology is a cult, a crooked business, an intelligence collection operation, a lot of things, but it only pretends to be a religion.

    The idea is that we're supposed to be dumb enough to fall for it.
  29. Anonymous Member

    If you preface anything they call themselves with sinister, the public doesn't really care what Scientology says, we win.
  30. Anonymous Member

    ORLY? Let us try this then:
    Scientology is:
    a sinister cult
    a sinister business
    a sinister intelligence collection operation

    Oh, I guess that works :)
    • Funny Funny x 1
  31. Anonymous Member

    But but.. Scientologists wouldn't call themselves that! Let's try:

    a sinister applied religious philosophy
    using sinister LRH tech
    with a sinister way to get people off drugs

    "We are the sinister authority on mental health."

    .. I give up. It works.
    • Funny Funny x 1

  32. Not according to unadulterated/unaltered 'source' it aint.

    LRN2HelenO'BrienB4youLRN"The Creation of Human Ability"

    • Like Like x 1
  33. Anonymous Member

    Hubbard used the term "homo saps" for a reason.

    He was describing something.

    Being stridently against Scientology doesn't exempt someone from being manipulated by it.

    One must use his brain.

    Some people don't.
  34. fishypants Moderator

    I agree.

    Also, although "Squirrel" is amusing, it's Scientology terminology - which we don't want to be drawn in to using. Just on principle.

    How about "Independently deluded culties" ?
  35. Anonymous Member

    Matter of opinion.

    There is no universally-agreed-upon definition of religion.

    I'm with Hugh Urban in finding it more interesting to think about why Scientology wants to be considered a religion and what benefits it gets from that, rather than arguing semantics about what's a religion and what isn't.

    I don't doubt it. But the Spanish Inquisition probably had a similar effect.

    My point is just that it's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure for a religion (or, if you like, 'a bullshit psychological system') to begin by saying "these things are literally true" and then when it's provable that they aren't - e.g. the volcano in Hawaii didn't exist at the time that Xenu was supposedly imprisoned in it, the entire Earth has provably not been covered by a Flood during human existence - then the religion / psychological system / whatever-you-want-to-call-it falls back on the "we meant it metaphorically" line of argument.

    So anyway, I couldn't really give a damn what Scientologists believe.

    We're not the thought police.

    What bothers me is what they do.
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  36. Anonymous Member

    What they do is Scientology.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  37. Well, you need to understand that a scientologist will "believe" what services scientology. Its the dogma, the scripture, the "belief" itself that makes scientology a "belief system" that calls into question humanity and all that is bad within the human condition.

    Hubbard wanted unthinking followers that pulled no punches, and would take whatever steps to apply KSW.
    Rather have be me DEAD than incapable?
    NO FUCKING WAY!
  38. Anonymous Member

    There's a difference between beliefs and actions.

    Freedom of belief and all that.

    Abuses = bad.

    Believing crazy shit = their right.

    I get that. It's a self-serving belief system.

    If they're going around doing bad things to children or vulnerable people, then I'm against that. Also brainwashing.

    Also dishonesty in the form of front groups (Narconon etc) and in the form of the bogus 'technology'.

    These - "we are the only ones with a cure for drugs!" - these kinds of things are fraudulent.

    There's a difference between that and "I was a swashbuckling space captain 10,000,000 years ago!".

    One of those statements is fraudulent and (if extended into the practicalities of quack medical treatment for drug addiction) dangerous. The other is just nutty. They're entitled to be nutty.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Hubbard knew Scientology wasn't a religion. The people who run Scientology know it's not a religion.

    Scientology is a psychological system, consisting of unqualified people applying often dangerous procedures. Under the fraudulent cloak of religion it uses slave labor, commits fraud, and drive people insane.

    Scientology believes that religions, themselves, are the result of electronic-psychological IMPLANTs, and laughs at religion, except when using it to handle wogs in PR.

    • Like Like x 1
  40. Anonymous Member

    Hugh Urban is a nice guy, but he's a professional "New Religion scholar." It's his job to see almost anything as a "religion."

    The various destructive cults, years ago, invented that category of "scholar."

    You sound like a nice guy, but someone who is an easy mark for any moderately clever con man.

    You're out of your league.

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