School shooting in CT

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Paroxetine Samurai, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Anonymous Member

    No-one's suggesting that they disappear. Hunters, farmers etc have a genuine need for guns. They're not even entirely out of place for self-defence.

    Guns designed for infantry warfare, however, don't have a place in civilian life (IMO).

    That's not true - take a look at the international statistics.

    Of course, no law can prevent all violence, but laws can make a big difference to how much violence there is. For example - murder:

    UK: 1.2 murders per 100,000 civilians.

    USA: 4.2 murders per 100,000 civilians.

    We have all the same movies and music, so that's not the cause of this massive difference in the chance of being murdered.

    Perhaps it's because we drive on the left, here in the UK?

    Or maybe it's because we talk with a different accent?

    Or maybe - just maybe - it's because in the UK we responded to the gun massacres at Dunblane (primary school) and Hungerford by making the gun laws more restrictive.
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  2. Anonymous Member

    Yep, restricting guns in the hands of citizen had exactly the expected result: violent crime went up.
    Yep, those unintended consequences. People who are law abiding think "Great, no weapons, so I'm safe."
    The criminal thinks the same way: "The marks can't defend themselves. I'm safe."

    Damn statistics, always interfering with those emotional responses
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  3. Anonymous Member

    Uh huh.

    Your linked article is at - anyone can post a press release there.

    The author of the article is

    I don't think that the exec director of "Ohioans for Concealed Carry" is an unbiased source. This is just gun-fetishist propaganda.
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  4. Anonymous Member

    I can't see any reason why assault type weapons can't be owned by the general public BUT they must be kept and used at gun clubs/ranges only. It's the only place suitable for this type of weapon anyhoo.

    Also, armed guards at Schools?? Wouldn't this just mean the guards would be the first tergets and unless they are packing equivalent weapons and Kevlar body armour they won't stand a chance? And the kiddies will just die caught in the crossfire during the shoot out!
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  5. Anonymous Member

    Lol dox and statistics from newspapers, just lol
  6. Anonymous Member

    Yeah, like getting rid of the crazy in America is easier than getting rid of rapid fire rate tactical weapons!
  7. Anonymous Member isn't even a newspaper.

    Here's a reputable study of UK crime over time:

    Gun crime is on page 63. Number of gun offences can be seen to rise in the late 90's, as part of an overall rise in crime. This doesn't say anything in particular about the effectiveness (or not) of the legislation which resulted from Dunblane.

    BBC analysis is here:
  8. Anonymous Member

    People with serious mental problems have a harder time with tasks that require attention to detail and social obligations. Maybe if gun ownership were linked to membership in a local club with a firing range and regular practice demands, that would keep a lot of the more disturbed people away from the guns.
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  9. Anonymous Member

    Maybe if there were some kind of requirement that you had to be mentally competent to own a gun...
  10. Anonymous Member

    That requirement will impose a lot of costs upon the state and the people who want to own guns. "Competence" isn't as easy to determine as something like height or weight.
  11. Anonymous Member
    Lots of people have noted the increase in crime in the UK since the government banned people from defending themselves.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Problem is: What if somebody passes with flying colors and one day cracks and goes postal?

    What about like in the case of CT: The mother bought the guns, but her ass-faced aspie used her guns against her and those kids? No law could have stopped that from happening.
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  13. Anonymous Member

    Name them.

    Are they gun nuts?

    So far all you have is the Daily Mail article (which is just sensationalist) and this non-press web thing you've linked to which says things like

    which just doesn't tally with the real-world stats, which are:

    1.2 murders per 100,000 people in the UK

    4.2 murders per 100,000 people in the USA

    That could happen.

    "It doesn't make the world perfect" is not a good reason to avoid trying to reduce violence.
  14. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Obviously you haven't seen the shades of crazy going on in the US Gov. I'd bet it'd be much easier to cure all the crazy here than it'd be to convince 3/4ths of the House and Senate to agree to overturning the 2th Amendment.

    ...and hot off the heels of the NRA's "answers":

  15. Anonymous Member

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  16. Anonymous Member

    This would, in no way, deter a mentally/emotionally disabled person from getting into his parent's gun collection located in his home.

    The guns' owner didn't kill at Sandy Hook Elementary School. The guns' owner's son did. For all we know, the mother DID belong to a gazillion clubs.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Firstly, daily mail=Oh my god it's terrible. This newspaper has no respect in the uk because of its over the top dramatic reporting.

    Secondly, link is not to said source.

    Thirdly, and most importantly, you are obviously a pro gun American because any uk resident will tell you that we have NEVER wanted guns to defend ourselves. The uk mindset has never included carrying or owning a gun, that's a US trait, don't paint us with the same brush. Gun crime is rare in the UK, criminals mainly and the occasional family dispute where someone owns a gun. It's rare you turn on the news and hear of a shooting somewhere in the UK, that's what shocked me when I went to Miami a decade ago, morning news on tv was full of shootings and armed robbery. The only time you will see a gun in the UK is at airports and gov buildings carried by police, and it don't make me feel safe at all, we never used to have armed police anywhere!

    Unfortunately its a scourge that's creeping across the Atlantic from the good old US of A, the gang culture, the guns in music vids etc etc has made guns seem cool to younger members of society, it's one of the parts of US culture I despise, guns won't let you say sorry, you can punch someone and apologise for losing your temper. Shot someone and there is no talking to a corpse, they don't listen. A moments anger, a wild rage, couple that with a weapon that not only kills but kills at a distance, so no one in the vicinity is safe! If you are unarmed then less people get hurt, that's a simple fact! In the US you now have weapons and ammo that can inflict horrific damage, very quickly, and through just about anything! Now that is not a recipie for a peaceful society, everyone has the capability of killing if they flip out for a moment.

    You want a peaceful, safe society America? You gotta grow up and grow a pair. Put the guns away. Civilised society doesn't need them!
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  18. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    From all the info: The mother and the shooter BOTH went to practice ranges to shoot the eventual weapons used in the shooting.
  19. Anonymous Member

    I think you hit the nail on the head without realising it, gun collection located in his home! Is that really the place for an armoury?
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  20. Anonymous Member

    Where else would you keep it? In the garage?
  21. Anonymous Member

    Sorry to burst you bubble
    Since NBC sportscaster Bob Costas gave us an anti-gun lecture two weeks ago during Sunday Night Football, we've heard a lot from progressives like Juan Williams, Bob Beckel and anti-gun advocacy groups about how countries in Europe with strict gun control laws don't have problems with gun crime. We've also heard the reason the United States has a "gun crime problem" is because we allow citizens to own handguns however, the numbers on violent crime committed using a gun tell a different story.
    New data out from the UK, where guns are banned, shows gun crime has soared by 35 percent.
    The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

    Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

    Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

    It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

    Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

    Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

    Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

    "Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offenses.

    "The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either.

    "The figures will continue to be dreadful until the Government produces a coherent long term strategy to attack crime at its roots and get police visibly back on our streets."

    Gun crime would not be cracked until gangs were broken up and the streets "reclaimed for the honest citizen by proper neighborhood policing", he added.
    At least some in the UK are talking about "attacking crime at its roots" by focusing on criminals, after all, guns are already banned so they can't blame crime on guns shooting themselves. Meanwhile in the United States, as more and more people own guns, the rate of violent crime has gone down.
    Violent crime in the United States fell for the fifth consecutive year in 2011 with murder, rape and robbery all going down, although crime remains a serious problem in many urban areas, the FBI said on Monday.
  22. Xenu Is Lord Member

    Let’s get the record straight for all of you who want to ban so called Assault Rifles. More people are killed in the US every year by being beaten to death that with these evil guns from hell. Even if you banned them all it means is that beating deaths, mass deaths by arson explosives and other ways would go way up.

    Total 15,087 14,916 14,224 13,752 12,996
    Total firearms: 10,225 10,129 9,528 9,199 8,775
    Handguns 7,836 7,398 6,800 6,501 6,009
    Rifles 438 453 380 351 358
    Shotguns 490 457 442 423 373
    Other guns 107 116 81 96 96
    Firearms, type not stated 1,354 1,705 1,825 1,828 1,939
    Knives or cutting instruments 1,830 1,817 1,888 1,836 1,704
    Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 618 647 603 623 540
    Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)1 841 869 875 817 745
    Poison 12 10 9 7 11
    Explosives 1 1 11 2 4
    Fire 117 131 85 98 74
    Narcotics 48 52 34 52 39
    Drowning 12 12 16 8 10
    Strangulation 137 134 89 122 122
    Asphyxiation 106 109 87 84 98
    Other weapons or weapons not stated 1,140 1,005 999 904 874
  23. Anonymous Member

    So, you're saying Adam Lanza would've punched 20 kids and 6 adults to death, had he not had access to an assault rifle?
  24. Anonymous Member

  25. Anonymous Member

  26. Anonymous Member

    All we want is common sense legislation to regulate beds. We need to keep people out of them who have no business being in them! Crazy people in mental hospitals are put in padded rooms with no bed so they don’t hurt themselves. Why does anyone need a bed anyway? Do you really need two beds? Bunk beds, are you joking, can you really sleep in more than one at a time? People have slept on floors for a hundred thousand years, it is safer that way. After all you are close to the floor and there is no place to fall. If we can get federal mattress inspectors to tax beds and faze them out we can save lives. If one life is saved, is it not worth it? Did you know that beds not only claim the lives of innocent victims by accident every year, but criminals also use them to wreak havoc? Inmates in prison have set fire to them, drug dealers hide their stashes of narcotics in them and for god sake the plague of Bed Bugs our nation is now facing would be a thing of the past if only we could follow suit of enlightened nations that sleep on the floor. The United States (which has no constitutional guarantee to a bed) would be a safer and happier nation if we did not have all these radical bed nuts pushing their lethargic radicalism!

    I for one am not going to take this laying down!
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  27. Anonymous Member

    ^lacks reading skills
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  28. Anonymous Member

    I am saying he would have found a way. But all the same what is your excuse for all the punching deaths? Ban punching?
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  29. Anonymous Member

  30. Xenu Is Lord Member

    yes, in countries that have less guns mass killings are done other ways. It is easy to find, use google. Also as a posted above story mentioned, gun crime in countires like the UK are going way up when no one is supposed to have guns ::(
  31. Anonymous Member

    advertising your vulnerable spots is really a bad idea

    "Hi, here are my buttons...don't push them."
  32. Why worry about the U.K?
    I would worry about Mexico and the number of weapons bought and shipped from the U.S to the likes of the Zeta's.
  33. Anonymous Member

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  34. Anonymous Member

    You think the number of killing is fixed and taking away one weapon will increase the killings by another method.
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  35. Anonymous Member

    But if they had a bomb, they may have killed more.
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  36. Anonymous Member

    He is saying that incentives matter. If you advertise that all citizens are unarmed, it makes sense that more crimes will occur.

    There may be fewer murders if you 'ban' guns, but there are crimes other than murder, rape and theft, for example.
  37. Who is this they you are referring to?
    why make the effort to make a bomb,when It's so easy to buy a military grade firearm from a local store.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Yep, how many people are beaten or strangled to death each year? I say we make a law against using hands to hurt/kill people (wait! there are laws, but people still do it anyway...what?!)
    Criminals find ways around laws. Truefax.
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  39. Anonymous Member

    Oklahoma City? many things people can destroy others with.
    Also, Cancer Pants aka Mr. Troll...nice.
  40. I assume bombs have been made more difficult to buy since this terrible act?
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