"Scientologists At War" (documentary, Joseph Martin, Roast Beef Productions) - UK channel 4, 17 June

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Jun 10, 2013.

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  1. Anonymous Member

    To be shown on Channel 4 (UK), 9pm 17 June 2013.

    Likely to be available on 4oD (web streaming) shortly afterwards.
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  2. Anonymous Member

    Hi Mike - can you send me my hard disc back plox? Thanks.
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  3. Anonymous Member

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  4. jensting Member

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  5. Anonymous Member

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  6. pooks Member

    Ya, Please return my discs as well.
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  7. Anonymous Member

  8. BigBeard Member

    This could get interesting if it leads to the 'Indies' in the USofA trying to go for the same tax breaks the 'Official' Cof$ has.

  9. Anonymous Member

    They would probably wind up in same situation as the Sklar case.
  10. DeathHamster Member

    I dunno. In this case, they'd be comparing apples with apples.

    If they were denied, then they'd have "standing" to turn around and have the preferential Scientology agreement revoked. (Odds of that happening: very very small.)
  11. Anonymous Member

    The ruling says the Sklars were similarly situated ie they WERE apples and apples.
  12. DeathHamster Member

    That ruling was in one of the older Sklar cases in 2002.
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  13. Anonymous Member

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  14. BigBeard Member

    The Sklars are from another religion, trying to get the same benefits the IRS gave the Cof$. The "Indies" could legally be thought of as a splinter group Cof$, with differing ideas on how much direct ecclesiastical control of Cof$ Miscavige should have. That would give them a bit different "standing" relationship than the Sklars had.

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  15. Anonymous Member

    DeathHamster & BigBeard--I haven't had time to review both the 2002 and 2008 cases in full in the last two days so there may be something I am missing.

    I still think the gist of it is that unique thing about Scientology is they have the closing agreement. If there wasn't the closing agreement, the deduction wouldn't be legal. In fact I think I remember the courts acknowledge that the Hernandez case would make them illegal. My understanding of closing letter is that it in effect constitutes part of a tax return filed by CoS, and that as such it is supposedly confidential and can't be considered as legal precedent--how can you have secret precedents that apply to third parties?

    Therefore it does not apply to any other taxpayer. I think that the courts' decision is saying whether the situations between CoS and other groups are similar or not is irrelevant.

    The indies are splinter groups only in the sense they have the same beliefs--they are not organizational spin-offs that were once covered by the closing letter. No one has any "standing" under the closing agreement except the entity who was party to it.
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  16. Anonymous Member

    Thank goodness. I'd hate for more cos lookalikes to spring up like dandelions in a field.
  17. BigBeard Member

    The "Indies" could claim they are part of the Cof$, but Miscavige over reached and ignored 'Source' in declaring them SP's and cutting them off from the tax breaks. And as good $cientologists according to LRH's teachings, whatever DM says, they want them back. Get's into that murky area around the edge of the event horizon, but I think there's a better case for 'standing' than the Sklars had if push came to shove. And it would definately create a 'Tar Baby' for the Cof$ and IRS to deal with.

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  18. DeathHamster Member

    I don't think that it's as hermetically sealed as that. If the Indies can show that the IRS is unequally enforcing the Code to their detriment, then they should be able to have standing. Many groups try to use this and fail, but in an apples to oranges situation.

    Interesting reading, even past the Scientology stuff:

    The IRS is believed to have misfiled a number of things under the category that is protected by tax return confidentiality, including the rather unique procedure that was use to negotiate the agreement. Someone with a Crowbar of Standing might be able to open that up.
  19. Anonymous Member

    They're already hitting the comments here:

    1. Todd on 12 June 2013 at 17:25
      I feel aghast that you are even considering airing a programme titled, ?Scientologists at War?. For instance which Scientologists did you find who were at war. Marty Rathbun is certainly no Scientologist and the fact that you even state that he defected shows that all you are trying to create is the impression that we are warring with each other. This could not be further from the truth. I suggest that you not air the programme and find something else to occupy your time.

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        • Frank on 12 June 2013 at 16:30
          There are millions of Scientologists throughout the world applying Scientology in their daily lives who are more than willing to express to anybody how it has improved their lives, so why is it that Channel 4 (and other media) are usually - if not consistently - presenting Scientology solely through the eyes of a few dissidents (usually 3 or 4 max) who per definition are against it? Are you taking advice from unsatisfied car owners at all when looking to buy a new car? There is a "problem" with Scientology in that it claims to put people in a position where they can solve their own problems in their own lives, which also means they're becoming more independent and thus less tractable. But then not everyone thinks that's a great idea... Could that be the real "problem" behind all these senseless attacks? I think the time has come to have a truly informative - not derogatory - program about Scientology, that would allow people to make up their own mind for themselves. Visit sci link removed Think for yourself.
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  20. Anonymous Member

    More. If nothing else they are always good for a laugh.

    Mike on 12 June 2013 at 10:45
    I am not happy that programme is being aired, Firstly it's title implies that this programme will be a one side account which will produce negatives about my religion without presenting the factual data. Your ex-Scientologist speak as just that apostates are known to always be in disagreement with the groups they leave so any news from then can be predicted.Scientology has helped me for over 30 years now. I have a very fulfilling life because of it and enables me to help others effectively using it's principles. If you want to truth just visit a church or visit the website. sci link removed There you will see the work done world wide to provide unconditional help.
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  21. Anonymous Member

    One thing I do think the indies might be able to do that the Sklars didn't was get the Tax Court to force the IRS to disclose the closing agreement. It seems like the court was leaning to saying that the privacy of closing agreements wasn't absolute if they resulted in preferential treatment, but that the Sklars didn't meet the standard.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Information cross-posted to Mike's blog with credit and and link-backs to WWP:

    Information cross-posted to Marty's blog with credit and link-backs to WWP:

    Information cross-posted to ESMB with credit and link-backs to WWP:

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  23. tigeratbay Member

    "Truth" from a conned bubble head who is suffocating in his own lack of ability to see any truth. I'm surprised they commented at all. They must be under orders?
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  24. Anonymous Member

    Information again cross-posted to Mike's blog with credit and link backs to WWP:

  25. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Oh good christ-onna-pogo-stick! They're going to keep over thinking themselves into their graves, its what the fat retard Hubbard created~ a world of back-stabbing, bickering, bureaucrats, boldly bullshitting about brave intentions, blankly bowing to the 'Bluster of Tubs~Volume 46trillion', blindly believing a master weaver of bland baffle-gab. The old cock-sucking crone, in his crazed compassion, created a cult stupider than a cow, clammier than a one-celled amoeba, slower than a speeding train-wreck.
    Just for the simple fact that the whole scam is designed to prey upon the weak, their first victims... will always be themselves.

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  26. Anonymous Member

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  27. jensting Member

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  28. Anonymous Member

    Hey- this could be fun- come on you lovely Anons post some beautiful entheta, I have!
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  29. afternon Member

    I love this comment:

    "I have been a Scientologist for 43 years and have worked in Church organisations at senior levels. Scientology through the research and discoveries of L Ron Hubbard is working hard daily to make this world a better place. As regards Channel 4, I have found it to be consistently devoted to delivering poorly researched and one-sided programmes that benefit no-one."

    Says a scilon who hasn't seen the documentary because it's not aired until Monday next week!
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  30. afternon Member

    I also love the fact that, like one of my youtube videos that got the scilons ranting in the comments- Google loves an active comment section- well done OSA, you're promoting entheta!
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  31. jensting Member

    Theo pops up with a slightly confused message

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  32. The Wrong Guy Member

    Monday on Channel 4: The Bunker Invades the UK

    By Tony Ortega

    Monday night at 9 pm, our UK readers will get a chance to see a 1-hour documentary on Channel 4 put together by director Joseph Martin and producer Danielle Clark. The title is “Scientologists at War,” and we expect it to feature the rise of Independent Scientology that is proving to be such a challenge to the church itself.

    Last September, we were covering one of the most unusual stories we’ve written for the Bunker, about two former private investigators who had followed one man for 24 years on orders of Scientology leader David Miscavige. (The story itself was published in November.) We had flown to Texas for the story, and we drove down to Corpus Christi with the two private eyes and their attorneys as they were reunited with the man who had first hired them for the church in 1988, Marty Rathbun.

    Also on hand was the Channel 4 team, which included producer Michael Simkin. We found ourselves being filmed as we interviewed Rathbun about the private eyes, one of the most interesting conversations we’ve ever had with him.

    Later the film crew asked us if we’d be interested in getting even more involved with the project. We spent a week in Los Angeles in November with them, interviewing quite a few people, as well as a couple of days near Houston.

    We don’t know what the finished film looks like, or how much of our contribution remains. But we were impressed by the amount of homework that Martin and Clark and Simkin had done, and the excellent questions they asked.

    We’re not sure how viewers outside of Britain will get to see the documentary, but we have a feeling the clever folks at WWP will find a way.

    Scientologists at War - Channel 4

    Scientologists at War examines the independent Scientology movement and the high level defectors who have publicly renounced their membership from the Church of Scientology.

    Marty Rathbun is one of the most senior defectors in Scientology's history. As the former Inspector General of Ethics in the organisation that was created by science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard, Rathbun worked closely with its leader, David Miscavige, and celebrity follower Tom Cruise.

    The film provides a rare insider view of the Church of Scientology.
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  33. Anonymous Member

    It says it is not available on 4oD. Does that mean it won't be or that it isn't at this time? I hope some smart anon in the UK will grab it for us.
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  34. Anonymous Member

  35. TrevAnon Member

    Ooo, someone posted a link to the big ex list. :)
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  36. Anonymous Member

    Can one of our friends in that area make a copy of it just in case?
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  37. tigeratbay Member

    Saw that. He hasn't passed the question mark yet.
  38. Saw the last bit of a tv advert just now,

    Scientologists at war.

    On Channel 4 at 9PM in The UK.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Information about the documentary has now been posted on Steve Hall's blog, Scientology-Cult:
  40. Anonymous Member

    Ah, the good old days are back! I love it when the culties try to run out the party line in a comments section only to have reality slap them in the face, repeatedly!

    OSA- we couldn't do it without you!
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