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Scientology and Antipsychiatry

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by zenu, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. zenu Member

    Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    HI :)

    This is my first thread, and post. I found out about Whyweprotest because of this:

    I am very passionate about helping to expose the big pharma/psychiatric scam racket, and its myth of mental illness. And will encourage debate about it whenever I can, because I see it as very dangerous, and a central social controlling myth. It is also targeting even our children now, and younger and younger. Millions of children.

    The first book I learnt about this was many moons ago, by Thomas Szasz, titled The Myth of Mental Illness. I am very glad indeed I was fortunate to find that book!

    I have found out that Szasz, although not a Scientologist himself, accepts their help against big pharma and psychiatry under the principle of "the enemy of my enimies are my friends" .It was a great shock to learn, and left me with mixed feelings. Because I greatly admire his learned expose of the mental illness myth, yet cannot understand how he cannot dig just how dangerous Scientology is, and what damage it does to speaking out against the corruption of psychiatry when collaborating which such a cult!

    I was later to find out about Dr Fred Baughman who has published The ADHD Fraud: How Psychiatry Makes "Patients" of Normal Children . I was to much later find that he also would defend Scientology, and then I saw videos of psychologist Dr John Breeding, who also exposes mental illness myth but also justifies Scientology's role in exposing psychiatry. So this left me very shocked and feeling quite isolated.

    Recently at another forum that is into psychedelics, and presents research on psychedelic therapy (which very slowly are returning), I was bringing up subject of antipsychiatry, and linked the thread I started to a very powerful video that shows psychiatric history in all its gory details. An awful but real tale of abuse, exploitation, profit raking, and mass murder. And some call it 'Scientologist propaganda'. And of course, like I said, I've met this attitude a lot. And from people you would think would know better.

    So in researching as to why this is, I came across your 'Anonymous' protest against Scientology

    I am thinking that Scientology have infiltrated the anti-psychiatry movement.

    I am aware of a bigger pyramid even that the government--big pharma--psychiatry/psychologist pyramid, and it is the globalist New World Order pyramid. Scientology is a power branch of it.

    I am guessing that the reason such leanred and sightful men as I have mentioned
    have been misled by the 'interst' and funding etc of Scientology is because they yet still don't see the bigger picture. And do not understand how the global elite are infamous for 'joining' movements which they know may cause them trouble.

    Thoughts?
  2. kitfisto Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Please Wiki Szasz , some good information on there . Also 13 Heathens has an excellent series on the scientologies "industry of death" "documentary" on youtube , citing the many many blatant lies and misreprestentations . I'd link it here but I don't know how . (i know , i know . it's sad ) but check it out .
    CCHR is a scientology front group by the way .
  3. Mirrorshades Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    So you're the reason why tinfoil is so pricey these days...
  4. XenuLovesU Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    So... I'm confused. If the enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend thing is broken, the enemy-of-my-enemy's-enemy-is-my-friend is the new meme?

    I never get these fucking memos.
  5. Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    7/10

    dontgetbuthurtxe8.jpg
  6. themadhair Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Industry of death getting ripped a new one by 13heathens:
    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=3CBFE85AE3E44645]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

    Seriously mate, if you want to debate over-medication in children and such you might be on to something. But if you want to start recycling the shit about mental health being a myth then you are going to have a rough time here.

    Five decades of peer reviewed papers (totalling over 50,000 papers, studies and trials) says mental illness is very real - what are you offering in response aside from vague claims and no actual evidence?
  7. Lednir Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Troll or nutcase or pillock? Those are your choices.
  8. themadhair Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    After this comment I'm thinking both:
  9. Delta Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Scientology doesn't want to destroy psychiatry/psychology to protect the well-being of children. They only care about getting rid of their "competition" and will do anything, in and out of moral restraints, to achieve that goal.
  10. zenu Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    OK, as I said I am feeling my feet here. This is first time I have heard of you.

    Now, I obviously know you are against Scientology. BUT, this is what I want to know for now:

    How many here are aware of the myth of mental illness. The fact of it. That there exist no tests for so-called 'mental illness'?

    OR who is claiming that mental illness is real, and psychiatry is true and uncorrupt, and is under attack from Scientology.

    My position is clear: Mental illness is a myth, big pharma and psychiatry are corrupt, AND Scientology is USING the anti-psychiatry movement to put people off from really damning it, because they will believe that it is scientology propaganda, and psychiatry is good and mental illness is really a biological disease.

    So can people who are at this thread. Can you tell me where your at with this?
  11. TheBitch Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    The enemy of my enemy, is my enemy's enemy.

    That is all.

    Damn Army.
  12. Condorstrike Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Zenu,

    you need to do more research - and the first thing you need to do is research the fallacy of taking absolutist positions, ie - making blanket statements such as "all psychiatrists are corrupt."

    Are all Psychs squeaky clean? Of course not - and the bad ones are in a position to do horrendous damage because of who and what they are.

    As for mental illness being a myth - I suggest you go do some volunteer work with local charities that work with the mentally ill. I guarantee you that mental illness is very real.

    As far as $cientology doing what you suggest - everything Anon. has seen over the past year, and everything the OG has seen, done (and in some cases, participated in when they were members of the Co$), points to $cientology repeatedly demonstrating they are not smart enough to pull off something like this.
  13. blank Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    There doesn't exist a test for migraine either.
  14. ManOnYous Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    There is nothing in scientology that you can't do without scientology.

    (I am not advocating freezone- that's an entirely separate issue.)

    I personally oppose 98% of psychiatry just as much as the CoS does, if not more.

    CoS is not truly about anti-psychiatry.

    They are about exploiting people who happen to feel (like me) anti-psych, anti-government, and generally suspicious of large institutions.

    You are a troll, probably, but I hope what I've said makes sense to you. Get out of the church, and fight psychiatric abuse without them. Scientology is only hurting your cause with its (well-earned) bad reputation.
  15. themadhair Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Lrn2read:
    Scratch-and-sniff test predicts mental illness | News.com.au Top stories | News.com.au
    Unlike you scientific-illiterate conspiracy-types, real scientists in real laboratories doing real science continue to make progress rather than recycle the same ignorant shit over and over and over again.


    There is no doubt about the science. Hell why don’t you bother picking up and reading a psychiatry journal or two? If you want to argue about corporate interest then that’s a different issue. Companies are greedy and I don’t defend that. I defend the science and what the evidence shows.

    Dox or STFU.

    Did it ever occur to you that if the only other extremely vocal group in society that seems to share your anti-psychiatry views is a crazy murderous cult that maybe, just maybe, your anti-psychiatry views are full of shit?

    Psychiatry is a well established field of science backed by literally tens of thousands of papers, studies and trials. You on the other hand are talking in simple vagaries with no substance to back up anything you are claiming.

    The bit I don’t get is that you unquestionably accept that biological organs malfunction and sometimes a little help on the road to recovery – why do you hold that the human brain should be any different?
  16. Erra Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    lul fun story.

    My parents and sister have severe clinical depression and anxiety. Without psychiatric pills, they wouldn't be able to get out of the bed in the morning. They'd literally be incapable of dealing with reality on a day to day basis.

    I was the only "normal" one in my family from very early on and as a result, was forced to grow up very early and very quickly.

    Im telling you this because psychiatry has probably shaped my life in a way you'll never know. I absolutely hate the way medication is abused by doctors looking for a quick fix and the children and adults of this nation ARE over drugged. Most just use mental illness as an excuse.

    But I promise you, there is a such thing as mental illness. It is very real, it is genetically and environmentally caused, and it is both biological and psychological.


    Look me in the eye and tell me that my parents are just perpetuating the lie. Or that they are just being controlled by psychosomatic lies from psychiatrists. That the pills they take aren't keeping them alive.

    get the fuck out

    you and scientology are the same goddamn thing.
  17. blank Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    If you are anti-psych you shouldn't associate with CCHR, because CCHR is nothing than a fanatical hate group.
  18. Vir Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    You can write this in your books in big letters:
    SCIENTOLOGY IS WHAT PSYCHIATRY WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE IF THERE WERE NO FREE THOUGHT AND NO CRITICISM

    Reminds me of Soviet psychiatry.

    Ironic, isn't it?

    LRH railed against communists and psychiatrists, and it turns out that his own group is an undemocratic cult using outdated psychiatric methods for mind-control.

    The people who successfully reform(ed) psychiatry are psychiatrists, patients, families and government regulators.
  19. Erra Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Edited for jumping the gun abit
  20. Vir Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    This is not dome-worthy. It is worth a rational response.

    Why so serious?
  21. Erra Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Someone who doesn't think doesn't deserve a rational response to his irrationality.

    Still, I suppose the thread serves a better purpose up here then it does down there. Let everyone know how much of an idiot this guy is.
  22. themadhair Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    If you had his experience and upbringing it would probably evoke similar strong feelings too.

    Rational response:
  23. Silent Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    You can oppose anything you like, as long as it is not scientology related, this forum as such has no opinon on it.

    I am niether pro nor contra, I only want to bring down scientology.

    Dr. Szchazch must be a very bitter and determined man, if he will ally with the biggest mindfucker of them all in order to promote anti-mindfucking. This tells me that Dr. Szchazch can go fuck himself, to be quite honest.
  24. ManOnYous Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    It's highly domeable, with yet another Vir post saying "let's be fair to scientology...."
  25. themadhair Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    I agree with vir on this one. Refute the loon thoroughly and expose their ignorance and idiocy first - then to the dome.
  26. Vir Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Do you mean fair as in giving them a sporting chance, or do you mean being fair as in using critical thinking and valid dox to support our arguments?

    Protip: They can't stand up a fair response. They can't stand the light of day. So we shine the daylight on them.

    This forum is for non-registered lurkers too. Having some psychiatry-related fail-arguments publicly visible is good.

    If you want to troll the OP, then start a new dome-thread and send him a PM to notify him about its existence. Then let's party on psych drugs. They're free straight from Pfizer, baby!
  27. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Mental illness is very real, and so are the symptoms.

    I know this, because I have one. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in X grade (fuck you OSA, you're not getting your filthy paws on my medical records, you fucking shitheads), and I received treatment for it. The doctors experimented with different meds, and after receiving the right combination, I now feel better than I have ever felt in my entire life.

    Tom Cruise doesn't know what he's talking about. There IS such a thing as a chemical imbalance, and mine was corrected through psychiatry. I have never felt so good in all my life.

    Anyone who doesn't believe me is ignorant. It worked for me, and it didn't cost my family a hundred dollars an hour to hold some stupid metal cans; unlike a cult, psychiatry is covered by insurance.

    Suck on that one, Scilon fucks.
  28. scarletbanner Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    New World Order? Obvious troll.
  29. nightfire Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    HEY OP?!

    Chemical imbalance in neural tissue has BEEN DOCUMENTED BY SCIENCE!!!!
    For example People with Schizophrenia (sp)
    Increased dopamine activity in the mesolimbic pathway of the brain is consistently found in schizophrenic individuals. The mainstay of treatment is antipsychotic medication; this type of drug primarily works by suppressing dopamine activity. Dosages of antipsychotics are generally lower than in the early decades of their use.

    This is NOT a theory, this is a diagnosis that can be confirmed through laboratory tests.
    Just because we haven't YET developed Lab tests for other mental illness' doesn't mean that we won't..... Researchers are VERY close to finding a Lab test for my particular disorder.

    They didn't have a lab test for hypo-thyroidism 10 yrs ago. But that is a REAL BIOLOGICAL disorder...

    So I guess what I'm saying is DOX OF GTFO
  30. nonnonanon Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Eh. Yes, obvious troll, but worth a few lines?

    The following is only one opinion and does NOT represent any form of consensus.

    The brain is a bunch of squidgy bits that do some fairly ill-understood stuff that is quite difficult to study directly. Note: I am not dissing those who study it, as they are doing great work, but the human being is seriously complex stuff. There are several ways in which said goop can go wrong, some of which are extremely obvious and easy to pinpoint by direct measurement, some of which are less so.

    I do find it easier to accept specifics when backed up with quantitative and objective measurements, but it's not as though these are entirely unavailable. And mechanisms are getting better understood all the time. The possible link between neurogenesis and clinical depression is one possibility that I found quite interesting.

    Do I consider all diagnoses of mental illness to be bullshit unless they are backed up by cold hard measurements and known mechanisms? No. If the evidence is really unclear or inconsistent I might be unsure of certain diagnoses, treatments, etc for specific issues, in specific instances, but the same is true for any advice provided by any specialist in any field - builders, car mechanics, doctors, etc. It is inevitably going to be the case that if a complex 'black box' system goes wrong, and you can't easily open up and poke around inside to find the faults, then diagnosis is going to happen in a somewhat indirect and probabilistic manner. Speaking only for myself I think that at certain times diagnosis can sometimes err on the side of the formulaic, and hence become rather more of a trial and error process than it really needs to be, but that's a detail and it has more to do with the structure of a specific healthcare system than with the Whole Question Of Whether Psychiatry Is An Industry Of Death Or Not.

    tl;dr: imho in general mental illness exists. Some (diagnoses) are more clearly defined or quantifiable than others. In general, psychiatry as a field contains many worthy attempts at coming to grips with a bewildering range of observed phenomena, though some instances are (again imho) more worthy than others.
  31. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Of course, by science, he means scientific method, tested by experiments, proven, and reproven. Not a book with a picture of a volcano on it, that is called science because some fat drug addict says it is.
  32. nonnonanon Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Cynic :)

    But yeah. ^^^THIS
  33. NotBobMinton Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    We don't care about Pro-psychiatry or Anti-psychiatry positions. This is only about taking down scientology. Period. So stop asking our what our position is. We don't care.

    We are not going to go sniffing around every Anti-psychtry group just because they bear some similarity to scientology's position.

    Known Scientology Anti-psychitry/drug front group:
    * CCHR "Citizen's Commission on Human Rights"
    * Drug Free Marshals

    There are other Anti-drug groups that have complained that scientology has tried to take them over. I am not surprised. If you want to know where someone or some organization stands in terms of infiltration google their name & scientology.

    You can also search an incomplete listing of scientology completions here
    Individual Scientology Service Completions by Name
  34. Giggles Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    It's just a shame about science.......eh?

    MRS (Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy)

    MRI (MRS 100)

    snip:
    Here is a clinical trial that I haven't been able to follow up on.
    Will look around for conclusions, if any, when I have more time and energy.
    For now....here is the study.

    MRI/MRS Investigations of Children & Adolescents with Bipolar Disorder

    OP, What will the anti-psych and/or scientology spin be once the tests do exist?
    (and they will exist very soon)
  35. WTF Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry


    Actually your position as stated above seems unclear:

    Mental illness is a myth

    mental illness is really a biological disease

    perhaps you lost me in the run-on sentence from hell
  36. tendervittles Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    I love psychiatry.

    alhuzt.jpg
  37. Anon1720 Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    To OP:


    AHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHA.....wiping off my screen now.
  38. kitfisto Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Under critisism section on Wiki : Thomas Szasz:

    The effectiveness of medication has been used as an argument again Szasz’s idea that depression is a myth. In a debate with Szasz, Donald F. Klein, M.D explained:

    “It is that elementary fact, that the antidepressants do little to normals, and are tremendously effective in the clinically depressed person, that shows us that this is an illness” [11]

    In the same debate Frederick K. Goodwin, M.D asserts :

    "The concept of disease in medicine really means a cluster of symptoms that people can agree about, and in the case of depression we agree 80% of the time. It is a cluster of symptoms that predicts something.” [12]

    Thus addressing Szasz’s idea that only mental illnesses are defined based on consensus and symptom clusters.

    There is also the criticism that many physical diseases were identified and even treated with at least some success decades, centuries, or millennia before their etiology was accurately identified. Diabetes is one notable example. In the eyes of Szasz's critics, such historical facts tend to undermine his contention that mental illnesses must be "fake diseases" because their etiology in the brain is not well understood.

    In an article titled The Myth of Thomas Szasz, The New Atlas magazine contends Szasz has had no real impact on psychiatry and on medicine in general:

    "Today, of course, Szasz is mostly remembered, if he is remembered at all, as the great silly, a flat-earth adherent in the time of telescopes and globes. Most medical students graduate without ever hearing his name."[13]


    Good arguement , I think so anyway .
  39. snakeyes Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    If you're saying that in SOME cases people are misdiagnosed with a mental illness, I am with you. If you are saying ALL mental illness is a fabrication by some cabal, then just keep on moving dude. My friend's dad is batshit-loco schizophrenic and he definitely didn't make that up.
  40. zenu Member

    Re: Scientology and Antipsychiatry

    Hey Condorstrike~~With respect, please don't patronize me. I have been round the block a few times, as they say, and have been into this subject for many years, and have had personal experience.

    What do you know of conformity? What do you know what money does to peoples sense of morality? I hope I am not being patronizing asking you that. But you tell me not to be 'absolutist'. But what we have is corruption. Yes. IF say we have a police force, and it is ciorrpt and you can bribe your way, well is criticizing that police force being absolutist? No, that accusation just tries to avoid challenging what is going on!

    Now, I see you that you do not think that mental illness is a myth. So we better get clear what is meant here. When I say mental illness is a myth, I am not saying that people do not express various states of distress which even can be what psychiatry called 'psychosis' and 'schizophrenia' and 'bipolar'. Those being probably the most extreme where people see visions, hear voices etc. OK? But what I am saying is is that that and other forms of so-called mental illness like 'clinical depression', 'OCD', 'PTSD', 'ADHD' etc etc and all the ones they add to their DSM Bible, are not medical biological diseases but behaviour as there exists no test to prove the former. None! hence they are not biologically caused though big pharma and their drug pushers, the shinks and psychologists claim that they are biologically caused. So do you see the potential for exploitation and corruption here?

    So you think Scientology is not smart enough to infiltrate the anti-psychiatric movement?
    Well, how about them getting people to part with thousands, millions, of $£etc of their money to believe in the utter crap Hubbard dreamed up...?!

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