Scientology and Werner Erhard

It has been my experience that this was true of everything I have ever come across. Relationships, high school, the United States, all inventions, all of it, can be found at different times to have has equal parts of anything anyone could say about it. Yes people seem to talk about things as if that thing over there is bad and me over here and all the things I do, is all good. Oh them over their, they are so brainwashed, but us over here? Oh gosh no, we are free thinkers and slaves to no one and no thing. These are bizarre lopsided unrealistic and convenient points of view IMO.

He had Larzelere process the staff. The technique — one of many Erhard has “borrowed” from Scientology — was simple enough: the est staff member held a tin can in each hand and answered questions about his loyalty to Erhard and est. If the meter jumped beyond acceptable limits, the subject still had a “charge,” an emotional “position” about the question. That would be “cleared” by intensive questioning until the staff member “processed out” his “upset.” Two high-level Scientologists — one had reached OT7, which is very good indeed — were available, and they seemed willing to supervise Larzelere’s operation while they developed material for Erhard. Students underwent the Danger Process, an exercise adapted from the Scientology communications course. A row of the audience at a time would go on stage and be confronted by est staff. One person would “bullbait” all of them, saying and doing things in order to get them to react. Wisely, est’s new “researchers” requested that their employment be kept secret; they knew that Scientology would not welcome the modification of its material in a rival discipline.

The 70's self help scene was loaded with this kind of experimental extreme esoteric processes. They were experiments. No matter what I did in California or where I went there such things happening. Went to a so called "traditional" group therapy session once and it was just too damn weird for my tastes. Never went back though i did 'hook up' with a person I met there ;-) And that turned out to be a very bad idea which I wont get into! But hey, what does any 17 year old know!

Curious , where did you get all that "Larzelere" stuff from? You seem to have been there in the thick of things.

i did the so called 'danger process" more than once and when I did it it was not as you describe. There may have been an early short lived experimental version of it which was exactly how you described it but your description does not what describe what I saw and heard.

Yes a a row of the participants went up to the front one row at a time and then another row would go would also go up and be with the first row and participants got to see what was there for them when they were just being with other people with no distractions. There was no baiting or any such thing. But then again, maybe I just never saw what you saw. There was lots of weird stuff happening in the 70's.

Again, just curious, how do you know all this stuff?

We are Anonymous
We are Legion
We do not forgive
We do not forget

Lol, is that how you talk to your grandmother when she asks you a question?

When my grandmother is a cult apologist fruitcake who needs medication, yes.

And what pray tell does your dear old cult apologist fruitcake in need of medication grandmother say back to you when you answer her questions with your:
"We are Anonymous
We are Legion
We do not forgive
We do not forget"
?

See the video (with plushie moose) above.

You can be informed by the two persons and the plushie moose in the videos above if you wish, I'll pass. I prefer to go by my direct experience of something when possible and and what I would consider more reliable sources of information and opinions.

First you told us to listen to Grandma.
Now you say we shouldn't listen to her because she has no direct experience.

Which is it? Should we trust Grannie Magoo or not?

Where did I say or remotely imply that you should " listen to Grandma"? I did not.

Where did I say or remotely imply that you should not "listen to Grandma" "because she has no direct experience"? I did not say that either. As in most of these forums you are railing against your own words, spin and conclusions and thoughts and not what others actually say.

I have no idea what you should do in this situation where you are arguing with your own self …. ask yourself I guess.

It's good to compare notes with others, though, because individual human beings can be fooled by illusions, misperceptions, and distorted memories.

Yes I would agree it can be "good to compare notes with others" when it is, and no when it is not. There can be situations where a bunch of people all get together and compare notes and form agreement on some concern and they are all wrong all are misinformed all have their heads up their -sses and all have sh-t notes. There has been lynchings and all kinds of mischief when groups formed and saw that their notes were all the same. Juries and courts probably executed at least one or two innocent persons over the years.

And in my opinion, "illusions, misperceptions, and distorted memories" are found in equal abundance in groups organized to critique other groups "illusions, misperceptions, and distorted memories". And just like in fight club, critic groups do not talk about their own "illusions, misperceptions, and distorted memories".

Where there is humans, there is "illusions, misperceptions, and distorted memories". No exception.

Good for you, the first step is admitting it.

"the first step"???Does posting here automatically enroll a person into some kind of 12 "step" program? Yikes, no thanks.

That's pretty much what I did in 1981 when I did est. A worthless program.

Agreed. It really was a truly profoundly worthless program they gave people absolutely nothing.

You are starting to wake up.

And YOU are the local official measurer of awakened states of others? You must be fully awake yourself!!! Whoa! Cooooll!!!

I don't disagree. Sometimes groups merely reinforce the bad ideas of the most dominant personalities.

For double-checking to be meaningful, each person has to reach some conclusion independently. They have to do the maths themselves rather than copy from their neighbor's answer sheet. A group of independent thinkers all arriving at a similar conclusion is going to be more reliable than a group of people who simply echo the same idea without examination.

Well said.

Re: "meaningful,"

I would say for double-checking to be useful towards the aim of being as accurate as possible.

This is true.

no, actually, you just had an MU

LOL

Werner Erhard did not emprison people. I took one of his first trainings, and never felt that I could not leave the seminar/organization.

Later in life, while in school for an MA in Clinical Psyche, I learned what the symptoms of a "Cult" were. One is; that you cannot leave without retribution. Apparently Scientology does enact such punishment on its defectors. How sad because it denigrates it's members as well as its own so called "religion "

I am not convinced that Scientology is a religion.. I guess tax evasion as well as endoctrination is enough to choose nomenclature for any organized group. That is the price of freedom, unfortunately.

LRH has probably seen "his" retribution.

• Werner Erhard December 29, 1975, People
• Founder of est Targeted in Campaign by Scientologists December 29, 1991, Robert W. Welkos, Los Angeles Times

Does anybody know the Landmark terminological equivalent for "suppressive person" off the top of they head? Thanks in advance!

^^^^
I would like to know this too. I have what was a friend fall into Landmark. He is one pyramid scheme after another and his kid is abandon with his ex wife. I'm about to confront him about the destruction he is inflicting on his family.

a good but long read on Landmark:
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/4932/

This space epitomizes the internet. I've NEVER seen so much disinformation / misinformation and out and out lies as in this space .... Lol Wow.

I would encourage you to continue to speak your mind.

They were leasing a whole floor at WTC 1.

Story date: July 9, 2001.

New York Times profiles Werner Erhard and how he is back shilling his brand of "woo". Pretty favorable article and seems that the guy can still sling it and get that coin. Talks about how Scientology fair gamed him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/fashion/the-return-of-werner-erhard-father-of-self-help.html

I did EST in 1979 when I was 13 years old. Wtf were my parents thinking? Oh yeah, they weren't. Everyone just bantered a bunch of 'Euphemism' which later in life I realized were stolen from real prophets. I grew up thinking I was responsible for my entire reality, which after the initial euphoria wore off, really affected me at such a young age. That teacher who hit on me, must have been my fault. My father screaming that I was a stupid tramp, my fault. My parents divorce, my fault. What a bunch of arrogant, me-generation selfish people Est attracted. It took me many years to realize the damage the whole experience caused. Still, from what I've read about Scientology, Est was a walk in the park comparatively. I think both are a sham.

EST, later called The Forum, now called Landmark Forum, is another scientology spin-off like Metapsychology, Idenics, Ron's Org, Knowledgism, etc.
They were all started by narcissistic personalities and use varying amounts of Hubbard ideas and beliefs.
They all involve some degree of exploitation and abuse in the tradition of Hubbard.
Stay away.

The scientology crime syndicate Fair Games anyone they consider competition. Even spin-off groups have been known to be hostile to other spin-off groups the leader feels threatened by.

Several years ago I actually had a psychiatrist (an MD) suggest I look into a weekend seminar from Landmark Forum. He thought it might be beneficial for me. I had never heard of it but googled it when I returned home. When I saw the relationship between it and EST and its relationship to Scientology I was shocked that this Dr, a psychiatrist no less, would suggest such a scam to a patient. Never went back to that Dr, though part of me wanted to just to ask him what the hell was he thinking.