Scientology in France: Still Guilty After All These Years - Ap. Court Upheld Conviction - Feb 2 2012

Discussion in 'Media' started by Albion, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. Albion Member

    The appeal court has confirmed the convictions of the two Scientology
    organisations appealing their convictions for organised fraud; it has
    also confirmed the convictions of the five Scientologists who were
    appealing their convictions. For the most part, the sentences of suspended
    jail sentences and fines remain the same.

    Outside the court, Maître Olivier Morice for the counter-cult group UNADFI
    described it as a historic victory which he said had been followed by several
    European countries where court cases are pending. He also mentioned that
    Australia had been following the situation in France with interest and that in
    the United States several lawsuits from former members were pending.

    The appeal court rejected UNADFI's request to be admitted as plaintiffs to the

    I'll put more up at Infinite Complacency shortly.

    Jonny Jacobsen
    • Like Like x 21
  2. Sponge Member

    Conviction confirmed.

    Newsmedia to follow.

    *edit: The press assumes the fines and sentences are the same. Mnql1 and Albion posting further down this page point out some of the differences.

    A reminder of the original trial convictions, fines and sentences ...
    ** 4b, 5b. increase on appeal

    1. GUILTY Alain Rosenberg. 2 years prison (suspended) 30,000E fine *+
    2. GUILTY Didier Michaux 18months Prison (suspended) 20,000E fine *
    3. GUILTY Jean-François Valli 18months Prison (suspended) 10,000E fine *
    4. GUILTY Sabine Jacquart 10months Prison (suspended) 5,000E fine *+
    **4b. GUILTY Sabine Jacquart 2 years Prison (suspended) 30,000E fine *+
    5. GUILTY Aline Fabre 2,000E fine ~
    ** 5b. GUILTY Aline Fabre 10,000E fine ~
    6. GUILTY Marie Anne Pasturel 1,000E fine ~
    7. GUILTY Celebrity Centre 400,000E fine * Ordered to publish details of judgment.
    8. GUILTY Scientology Bookstore 200,000E fine * Ordered to publish details of judgment.
    * = organized fraud
    + = complicity in the illegal exercise of pharmacy
    ~ = illegal exercise of pharmacy
    Note: (7) & (8 ) are ordered to pay for the details of the conviction to be published in the major French and English-language news outlets including Le Monde, Le Figaro, Libération, the Herald Tribune and Time Magazine – and their websites. *edit: see Jonny Jacobsen's later comments in this thread for changes on this.
    In the original conviction, other individual orders and penalties such as for damages and costs awarded to the plaintiffs add further 27,450 Euros to the total.

    Question: Will there be further costs awarded to the plaintiffs that participated in this appeal?
    • Like Like x 13
  3. Sponge Member

    News reports in English:

    Associated Press . 2nd Feb 2012
    French court upholds Scientology fraud conviction
    AP/Boston Globe:
    AP/Seattle times:

    • Like Like x 6
  4. Anonymous Member

    Vive la France! Nique le secte!!
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Sponge Member


    The Court of Cassation is the highest court. Unlike the appeal court where it was effectively a retrial where the facts of the case could be tried again, this won't be the case next time.

    And I don't know what the fuck they are on about with the "U.N. special rapporteur".
    Like as if the U.N. can actually do anything about a member states court rulings on fraud, especially before all legal avenues have been exhuasted.

    Getting popcorn for the reports on their baaww protest outside the courthouse at lunchtime.
    • Like Like x 7
  6. mnql1 Member

    The sentence handed to Sabine Jacquart, former president of the Spiritual Association of the Church of Scientology - Celebrity Centre, was increased to match Alain Rosenberg's sentence: 2 years in prison (suspended) and a 30,000 euro fine. At the end of the first trial, she had a 10-month suspended prison sentence and a fine of 5,000 euros.

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  7. Sponge Member

    Oh you bute!

    Thanks mnql1
    • Like Like x 10
  8. mnql1 Member

    Translation of an excerpt from an interview with Valeska Paris posted on Feb. 2, 2012 on the website of French daily Le Parisien:

    Une ancienne scientologue : «J’ai perdu tout un pan de ma vie»
    ("Former Scientologist: "I lost a whole part of my life")
    Full translation:
    • Like Like x 13
  9. Zhent Member

    Bump for win and lulz.

    • Like Like x 3
  10. Ann O'Nymous Member

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  11. Sponge Member

    The scilons were due to start their futile jestures outside the courthouse a few minutes ago

    • Like Like x 10
  12. Albion Member

    The fines and sentences are the same in most cases, but not all.
    They are unchanged for the Celebrity Centre and the SEL Scientology bookshops.
    The court did not mention publication of the sentence in the English-language papers mentioned in the original judgment (IHT and Time magazine) when she read out the main points of the judgment. I'm still waiting to get hold of a copy of the written judgment, so that needs to be checked (UPDATE: the English papers are not named in the appeal court judgment, which also rules out ordering the decisions posted on the newspapers' websites. Apparently there was no legal provision for such a measure at the time the offences were committed, a point first made by the appeal court prosecutor during his summing up.)
    For Rosenberg, Michaux and Valli too, I think they are unchanged.
    But there is at least one change in the original sentences, with the one against Jacquart increased to a two-year suspended sentences and a fine of 30,000 euros -- like Rosemberg.
    At the original trial she was sentenced to a 10-month suspended sentence and 5,000 euros, but the prosecutor at the appeal trial had asked for that to be increased.
    (UPDATE: and for Fabre too. See the summary at Infinite Complacency.)

    There are no further awards to those plaintiffs who have already settled.
    Fabre, Pasturel and Rosemberg have to pay 5,000 euros each to the National Order of Pharmacistsv -- slightly less than the 8,000 euros in the lower court ruling.
    • Like Like x 6
  13. Robatl Member

    va te faire foutre, $scientologie!
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Albion Member

    I explain what they mean by that in the summary of the
    judgment, up now at Infinite Complacency.
    • Like Like x 9
  15. JJ - What about further appeals?

    Do the Clams have an automatic right of appeal?

    What about the section of the appeal where the Scilons failed to file paperwork, and thus invalidated claims to move any further?

    And how about countersuits for Abuse of Legal Process?
  16. Albion Member

    They do have the right of appeal and they are exercising it.
    They are taking their case to the Cour de Cassation -- the Supreme Court -- for reasons
    I try to set out at Infinite Complacency: I've not given all their arguments there,
    but the main points.
    They are describing the missing paperwork as the theft of documents and
    have filed a complaint.
    While I've not yet seen the printed ruling the court does not appear to have
    picked up on Morice's suggestion that these missing papers invalidated the
    Celebrity Centre's appeal. (UPDATE: the ruling rejects his argument.)
    I'm not aware of any countersuits for abuse of legal process, though I'm
    curious to see if the written judgment has anything to say about the tactics
    of the defence.
    • Like Like x 6
  17. mnql1 Member

    Translation of an excerpt from a short French article posted on Feb. 2, 2012:
    Manifestation de scientologues devant le palais de justice
    ("Demonstration by Scientologists outside courthouse")
    • Like Like x 3
  18. another123 Member

    and since it's related, but unknown to some (especially the media), PDFs of LRon Hubbard's 1978 conviction for fraud in France.
    Lings: PDF1, PDF2+JPG
    ^^ click 4 full-size
    • Like Like x 7
  19. Albion Member

    Good luck to those demonstrators: it's freezing out.
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Great summary there, just wanted to ask - Am I correct in thinking that the Cour appeal doesn't dispute the facts of the case, but is more akin to trying to get off on a technicality?

    And more to the point, how long will the next appeal take? Will the Cour de Cassation be even stricter than the appeal court when it comes to not putting up with clam Legalfaggotry (the stalling, the ragequitting, etc)?
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Anonymous Member

    Albion you rock. Thanks.
    Also thanks to others reporting for my morning reading pleasure
    • Like Like x 3
  22. Pinkman Moderator

    Each time I read it

    • Like Like x 3
  23. anonylan Member

    God bless FRANCE
    • Like Like x 5
  24. Sponge Member

    Check the posts of mnql1 and Albion because there are actually some differences in the appeal judgment. From what we know so far, the cult comes off even worse.
    • Like Like x 3
  25. Albion Member

    I've got the complete details of the
    convictions and sentences up now
    at Infinite Complacency.

    I'll try to answer some of the questions
    above a wee bit later.

    Jonny Jacobsen
    • Like Like x 10
  26. Sponge Member

    Scientology in France: Still Guilty of Fraud
    by Tony Ortega. Village Voice. 2nd Feb 2012

    • Like Like x 7
  27. Sponge Member

    Main differences:
    The court of appeal, which we've just had, was effectively a retrial where the facts of the case were re-examined. That's how they do it in France.
    The "supreme" court, cour de cassation, is more like the usual US/English appeal which only examines the points of law, not the facts of the case (bar some massive damaging evidence in favour of the defendant).
    Jonny will probably be able to explain it a lot better than I. It has been mentioned before.

    How long it will take before it begins is anyone's guess but since this appeal took 12 months over 2 years since the original trial judgment (Oct 2009) before it even started (Nov 2011) then I suppose that might be some sort of rough guide. In the meantime, a lot of other bad things will be happening to the cult elsewhere.

    edit: seee strik out/corrections above
    • Like Like x 3
  28. Cheers, Spongey

    Bolded for truth and emphasis.
    • Like Like x 3
  29. Anon'R'us Member

    Ah, reading this makes my day so much sweeter! Fantastic!

    What I don't fully unterstand is the ruling over the presence of the UNADFI. Where they now retroactivly excluded from the trial or not?

    And I look forward to the trial at the cour de cassation. Even more media coverage for what is essentially one slap in the face of scientology after the other. And perhaps some similar lawsuits in Germany, Belgium or Australia? Oh, this is a good day.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. jensting Member

    • Like Like x 9
  31. mnql1 Member

    Translation of a French article posted on Feb. 2, 2012:
    "Les jours de la Scientologie sont comptés", selon le président de la Miviludes
    • Like Like x 13
  32. DeathHamster Member

    My eyes keep translating "Cour de Cassation" as the heart of castration.

    Well, here's hoping.
    • Like Like x 5
  33. xenubarb Member

    A clown...attacked by man in spats and top hat. Ya don't see that every day.
    • Like Like x 3
  34. moarxenu Member

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  35. Albion Member

    What Sponge said -- though the appeal court of course also considered points of law
    (at tedious length, it has to be said).
    • Like Like x 1
  36. moarxenu Member

    This part of Valeska Paris' interview deserves to be highlighted:

    Are you following Scientology's legal developments in France?

    Of course, I am hoping it will be convicted. David Miscavige hates France. One day, we had organized a celebration for Alain Rosenberg [one of the defendants] on the Freewinds; he had just won an award. Everything was decorated in the colors of France. Miscavige, in a rage, ordered that everything be torn down! He detests France because he can't do what he wants there. It's a pebble in his shoe.
    • Like Like x 9
  37. /r/ somebody shoop a trollface onto a pic of Lady Justice

    Problem, Miscavige?
    • Like Like x 1
  38. Anonymous Member

    No no the. Baldy Guy and osa officer is the same
    Guy with top hat and spats is nono. ....
  39. Anonymous Member

    Top hat and spat is definitely Nono la. Patate
  40. Anonymous Member

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