"Scientology is a corporation"

Discussion in 'Education, Research and Inside Reports' started by Dubber, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Dubber Member

    "Scientology is a corporation"

    I want to comment on this theme I saw in some of the March 15 propaganda.

    When a group of people in the United States want to set up a project and have the courts recognize that project independently of the people currently involved, the standard way to do that is to create a corporation. A corporation does not necessarily make a profit. A corporation is not the same as a company or a business. There are corporations that are not businesses and vice versa. A corporation does not necessarily have shares, and if it does, the shares do not necessarily represent the same rights as shares in another corporation.

    The American Red Cross, the Democratic National Committee, and many local Freemason lodges are corporations. Each regional US Federal Reserve Bank is also a corporation, which has produced similar misunderstandings.

    Getting back to the subject, churches routinely set up corporations. The Latter-Day Saint church, in particular, has a complex corporate structure that seems to have been the model for Scientology's current structure. It includes Deseret Management Corp., which manages the church's for-profit portfolio, and Intellectual Reserve, which owns its copyrights and trademarks.

    Bottom line, nobody of any importance is going to care that Scientology operates under corporate charters, because everyone else is doing it. They should care that the corporations are being used to sell quack medicine, suppress the Free Zone, extort money, etc.
  2. Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    A slight missing of the point, here, I think.

    We're fighting a war of ideas which are built out of language. Scn recognizes this, which is why it dubbed itself a "church" to begin with when it clearly was and is no such thing. "Church" has an established meaning in the mindspace of the Western World, one with lots of tax benefits and additional protections not offered to everyday businesses.

    To combat this, we are giving them a dose of their own medicine. Every time we call them a "church," we accidentally reinforce their image of one, because words have meaning and power. Everyone knows of it as the Church of Scientology; even if they know it to be a scam, that word "church" establishes a bias that would be totally different were it called, oh, the Ponzi Scheme of Scientology. While you are correct--a corporation is merely a legal person created to establish a 'face' for collective action disassociated legally from its individual components--"corporation" in the mindspace means "large business."

    Our war is for mindspace, and most people are not semanticists. The connotation of words are far more important than their mere denotation. The more we call it the Corporation of Scientology to draw attention to its business-like aspects, the more traction the concept gets in the mindspace of the public and the more public perception shifts from "church" bias to "corporation" bias. In this war we must change the everyday public perception of Scientology from "harmless UFO cult" to "dangerous human-rights abuse scam factory." If we simply up and say "Scientology is a scam" people say "of course it is." Giving money to a fake bum on the street is a scam. Scams need not be highly organized.

    However, "corporations" must be organized. Big business, remember--bureaucracy. We establish the mindset that Scn is not led by clergy, but managers. That it does not have laity, but wageslaves (some with whom the wage is optional). That it doesn't have synods but executive meetings. This inches public perception away from knee-jerk "but it's a religion and they have rights" reactions, and establishes it as something perhaps a bit more worrisome. People worry about Wal-Mart, not the Catholic Church. From there, it's much easier to establish that, as a "corporation," it does bad things for profit, which fits into many people's biases against corporations.

    On the one hand, we do not lie. That is one of our greatest strengths, that of the truth. On the other hand, we do obscure, and we do influence. We wear masks to protect ourselves and, however unintentionally, generate an iconography that can be identified with us--a brand, if you will. We call Scientology a corporation, which it is, even though it serves the role of a church for many (if not all) of its members, even the top ones. We call Scientology a scam, which it is, although it may be one of those worst sorts of scams, the kind where the leaders have fallen for it too.

    Remember, Scn doctrine is that their higher levels are nigh-infallible. It is when one becomes infallible and incapable of error, incapable of evil, that one decides one is the Fist of God, or one declares "Kill them all, God will know his own," or one decides to put the heretics and the apostates and the infidels to the sword. When one is incapable of evil and the world is binary black-and-white, it stands to reason that whatever one does is good. It has to be.
  3. Gunslinger Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    Sorry - but that's incorrect.

    "Corporation" means a Business that is not a "Sole Proprietorship".

    I've run "Sole Proprietor" Businesses, have worked for "Corporations" and am currently the President of a Non-Profit "Corporation."

    All Non-Profits must "incorporate" to achieve the status of tax exempt (and meet a lot of other qualifications). But "Corporate" means that the decision making processes of the business in question and especially the financial decisions are made by a Board of Directors and not a single individual. It also means that if a Corporation is sued by any other entity, the Coroporation (meaning the Business, itself) is liable and not any employee or officer employed by the Business. If a Sole Proprietor Business is sued by any entity and found liable, the person who owns and operates that Business has to pay.

    Limited Liabilty Partnerships - or LLPs - are kinda like a hybrid of the two - where the Partners who start, own and operate a Business can avoid some liability, but are still personally responsible for other aspects that a Coroporation is free of.

    Another difference is that a Coroporation must have Bylaws (whereas a SP doesn't need 'em - although a Business Plan couldn't hurt).

    An interesting note - and something I've been curious about in regards to Science-Fictionology - is that there is a law in the Tax Code governing Tax Exempt Status, which says that the Bylaws of a Non-Profit Corporation must be readily available to the Public. Has anyone ever seen the Bylaws for the "Church" of Scientology? Hmmm?

    I think that would be some interesting reading, right there.
  4. Dubber Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    Did you perhaps overlook the word "not"? There are corporations that clearly are not businesses, in that they're not selling anything. Aside from that, I don't see how anything you said materially disagrees with what I said.

    I've seen several signs on this "corporation" theme, but one that stands out is a sign on 3/15 that said "A church should not be a corporation." That's patently untrue.
  5. Gunslinger Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    No, I didn't overlook the word "not."

    Did you over look the fact that you made the generalized statement -


    The way you word this makes it sound like NO corporations are businesses. I suppose what you should have said was, "Not all corporations are commercial businesses."

    But of course, my response to that would have still been, "Sure, but most if not all Corporations even 'Non-Profit' Corporations take in money in some fashion. Whether it's through fund-raising techniques like Bake Sales or a Sidewalk Santa Claus - or even selling tons of books about how to become a superhero - they're still offering something of inherent value in exchange for their "donation."

    The smoking gun here is not that Scientology sells books and courses at exorbitant prices. The problem is that they aren't paying any Taxes on the stuff they sell - and you can't be a part of their Super Adventure Club unless you buy their junk. It's a "Catch-22" in which the Co$ always only profits, without giving anything back to the community. (All of their fake "Fronts" like Narconon don't count)
  6. Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    Whoa, whoa, time. The enemy's out there, man, not here (generally) and we've got a job to do...

    The definition of the word "corporation," what really is a corporation, and other such minutiae are just niggling matters that distract us from job #1: making the Co$ pay, both literally and figuratively.

    If you don't want to call Scn a "corporation," that's fine, don't. But Anonymous Is Not Your Private Army (TM) so if other people do, they're going to. I simply presented my argument on why I call the Corporation of Scientology a corporation rather than a zaibatsu or a motorbike or a barrel of cream cheese. Let's save the anger for the people who have, oh, I dunno, committed negligent homicide and even now practice slave labor, child labor, and emotional abuse just to make a buck?
  7. Gunslinger Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    I think you're reading anger where there is no anger.

    Clarification of terms is not expressing anger - it's clarfication of terms.

    And it's not a matter of whether or not I or anyone else wants to call the Scientology Organization a "Corportation". They are a Corporation - they an Incorporated, supposedly "Non-Profit" Organization.

    But you're right - it's not an issue - unless of course you want to be as informed as possible about the Organization you're trying to do battle with. In that case, every bit of information and fact is as important as any amount of brainstorming and conjecture. Knowledge is Power.

    And Knowing is Half the Battle.

    And G.I. Joe is there.
  8. Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    My apologies--it seemed like danders were getting raised (on both sides). Caps and "did you notice" rhetorical (apparent) snideness tend to do that.

    Then again, I'm just an old Boy Scout-class forum warrior.

    At any rate, the debate over terminology is still... dare I say it... out-ethics? ;)

    Stay on target, people.
  9. the_cloak Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    Wait now, didn't a judge in the injuncton case rule that Scientology was a corporation?. I know just a county judge or something but doesn't such a ruling carry some weight anyway?
  10. lermanet_com Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"


    Eric Leiberman was in RTC vs Lerma, AND they used him when they used a grady ward case to try to depose me again for information/data gathering, here is how I made them go away

    They started the depo:

    Leiberman: Mr. Lerma, why do you continue to say bad things about the
    church of scientology?

    Lerma: Are you referring to the international psychopolitical terrorist
    organization doing a shrinking but still brisk business in fraud
    worldwide dba Scientology and associated entities?

    Leiberman: You cant talk about the church of scientology that way!

    Lerma: Are you trying to trick me into committing perjury?


    More about Religious Cloaking HERE

    Here is the actual policy letter issued that day in 1969 when a cross was dragged through the front door:
  11. leech Member

    Re: "Scientology is a corporation"

    I think in general rhetoric against CoS must be precise. They are masterful word twisters and rely on the fact that most people don't understand the double, triple, quadruple meanings of many words. They consistently use this against people. While, yes, Anonymous is not a personal dictionary army, it's important to at least make note of the tricks of thine enemy. Everyone else said it better, but we are engaged in a war of words, a war of ideas, and a war of information.

    tl;dr: Great Example

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