Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

Discussion in 'Jett Travolta' started by XenuLovesU, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. XenuLovesU Member

    Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Here we go. This is the first "official" damage control I've seen from the CoS.

    The Church of Scientology on the Treatment of Illnesses

    Other than this, Louanne Lee appears to be covering the "unofficial" PR blitz.
    ('poonage opportunity):

    Scientology and medical treatment

  2. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    liiiiiiiiars. Someone publicize the list of drugs the CoS hates -- I know ritalin, prozac, and apparently depakote are on that list.
  3. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    I love how Louanne dodged the main point. Classic Scilon bullshit.
  4. number 6 Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Wow, she is so full of s***, I don't know where to begin.
  5. whosit Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Actually not liars. Double talk - yes. They talk about "physical illness" in that statement and treating that blah blah blah. They don't believe autism to be a physical illness. Then again they also think they can leech a sunburn out of you with the purif but whatever.
  6. Mutante Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Is this the best Scientology's famed PR machine can do? Really?
  7. Erra Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    They always say physical medication.

    Its the psych meds they are against. They dont believe in psychiatry at all.

    Be sure to specify that whenever youre talking so that they have absolutely no ammo.

    They dont believe in psych drugs. They do believe in drugs for physical, bodily things though.
  8. TheBitch Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Yay, they've landed...


    See what a purification rundown does to yer hands?
  9. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    If psych meds are all they are against how come there were so many cancer deaths (on why are they dead) attributed to untreated cancers?
  10. Hostile Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    so wait, they tell you to seek help from a psycian for anything, but then go and tell you that they can't have any mind altering drugs...

    so basically, they could tell you to go to your doctor for your epilepsy, but dont' take the meds.


    depression, autism, epilepsy and all other mental health issues have physical roots.
    ie, someone who is depressed actually releases different amounts of hormones in response and causing the depression.
    another example is that of epilepsy, which can be caused by head trauma, nervous system infections, tumors etc.

    simply put, no condition is completely in your head. your nervous system is not just the thoughts your mind has, but a pathway of electrical signals responding to physical changes.

    sure, depression can be helped by seeing a psychiatrist, but if the stressors in your environment (like bad diet, unstimulating environment, stressful environment) aren't removed, there's a chance the depression may come back.

    I love doublethink!
  11. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

  12. whosit Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Actually I always thought the base 11 math in the book was pretty amusing. Makes you wonder if we had an extra pinky how the world would have turned out.

  13. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Not that different, actually; ten isn't a fundamentally important number or anything -- bases, 2, 8, and 16 (powers of 2) make more sense at the moment, for computing. I mean, maybe it'd be a little more inconvenient because it's an odd number, but teaching a kid base 10 versus, say, base 12 shouldn't be very different.

  14. Kilia Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Because in reality the CoS doesn't even believe in physical illness. They say it's all "psychosomatic". In other words, it's all in your head. Saying as well that any physical illness one has can be "audited out" or on the purif or both.
  15. whosit Member

  16. Hostile Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    dunno, they weren't smoking enough?
    for anyone who doesn't know, hubbard once said that not smoking enough can cause cancer
  17. kitfisto Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Uhhhhhhh what about Uwe Stuckenbrok ???????????????????????????? Never did get any answers to that particular question . (srry if I spelt that rong) But you get the point .
  18. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Well, it more accurately represents the real world.


    Now seems like a good time to emphasize that the CCHR is a front group for Scientology, and that Kelly Preston was highly involved in the CCHR (someone said she was on the board for it or whatever?)
  19. IComeInPeace Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    “There are also many medical doctors who are Scientologists themselves.”

    I guess it was one of them that diagnosed Kawasaki Syndrome?
  20. Hostile Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    portal quote: do you really think you're doing some damage? 2 plus 2 is... 10... IN BASE FOUR!!!! I'M FINE HAhahahah

    anyway, back to topic,

    true, upper level scientologists believe that all problems can be audited out... I'd like to see them try to audit a gore thread on the chans.
    mind you, that creates a logical circle where originally, they believe that only psychiatric problems are in your head. and other problems can be treated by a real doctor... but later, they learn that all problems can be treated by scientology... so isn't that doublethink?
  21. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Scientology's doctrines are locked, so all of them are basically doublethink once you get deep enough; they just do a buffer overflow on your brain and overwrite all the stuff you thought you knew.

    It's kind of a mindfuck.
  22. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    I wonder at what point in their indoctrination into the cult the poor rubes are told this? As we can see our favorite clamblogger is attempting to calm the fears of prospective culties in her article..we all know the truth due to testimony from ex culties...doctors are OUT, all MEDS are at what point do the poor suckers actually find this out?

    Far as I know they are allowed to see chiropractors, and dentists if they have the money to, but from reading the stories, that appears to be about it.
  23. XenuLovesU Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Most of 'em are quack osteopaths; like the Scientology doctor who attributed Elli Perkins' son's schizophrenia to "bacteria in his intestines" and "toxins"... and "treated" it with the ever-so-wonderful Scientology vitamin cocktail.

    I'm sure that worked out just fine. Because paranoid schizophrenics never need to take anti-psychotics and usually get better over time.

    Stabby McStab Stab:

    Elli Perkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  24. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    The main problem is the science they are "fighting".

    Psychiatry is a very "non scientific" field. Because all the diseases within it are multi-factorial (many sources and causes often working together). So it is relatively easy to wail on it. It's also a field where very little research happens for very obvious reasons (any research is frankly extremely brutal and inhuman) so the field advances slowly when compared to other medicine.

    This is where their argument has strength. It's "an easy science" to target. It's the science that best fights their religion/cult/mad hatter party.

    Of course any medication you take "screws with your body". It is only homeopathic medicine which has "no side effects". So it is easy to screw with psychiatry due to a problem endemic to the USA. The US medical system tends to give out "uppers" (Prozac) and "downers" (Ritalin) quite easily. Depression and ADD are used almost as drop words for "sad" and "being a kid/having low will power".

    I think it comes from a culture of "no responsibility" where the problem is not "you" but something out of your control. This is not endemic to just the USA, but is slowly spreading across the world. These are real diseases that have been hijacked by a privatised system which makes profit off prescriptions. So it is in their interests to treat sad, lazy and nervous people with drugs rather than saying "you are sad, lazy and nervous. And should try and solve those problems without drugs rather than relying on a quick fix which may exacerbate the problem."

    So it is easy to wean these people off these drugs onto the scientology program. If you are taking a drug when you are not really sick and then "become clean", you feel "better".

    And that is what we/you are fighting.
  25. RavenEyes Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    and they think smoking actually PREVENTS cancer, too
  26. mrfyde Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    What ever they believe about Physical Medications they are still made by their sworn enemy "Big Pharma" They would never condone giving any money to a company that made Psych meds.

    And why is it they want people to take B12 instead of aspirin ?
  27. XenuLovesU Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up


    Prozac isn't an "upper" -- it's an SSRI.

    Ritalin isn't a "downer" -- it's a stimulant that has a paradoxical effect on folks with ADHD, possibly by acting as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. It's mechanism isn't fully understood.

    "It is only homeopathic medicine which has "no side effects" -- hrm, perchance because homeopathy is at the same level of quackery as Scientology?

    I think we're fighting Scientology here. You might want to visit these folks:

    School shootings Antidepressants Depression & Psychiatrists - Citizens Commission on Human Rights
  28. xenubarb Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Apparently not. ToryMagoo posted this on ARS today:
  29. Hostile Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    ritalin actually has the opposite effect on kids than adults.

    we ARE an overmedicated society, but that does not mean that all psychiatric medicine and work should be eliminated
  30. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    True but to the average population they are classed as those.

    No, as I pointed out there is a reason why their stance on anti psychiatric medications is quite successful. I have had a few run ins with the joys of scientologists in the past since I used to volunteer in a holiday home for the terminally ill, disabled and mentally ill. They liked canvassing the place during their mentally ill weeks. Their "success stories" are people who don't need the drugs since they have a fair few of them rather than real problem cases. The Manchester Church of Scientology is quite vocal in their canvassing of mental health clinics with their "propaganda". It is tempting to people who are mentally ill to seek the church of scientology since medicine says they are sick and that the road is painful while scientology offers a quicker fix and that they are normal. Never mind that they don't know anything about the human brain.
  31. Forseti Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Harpoon time.....

    There is a LOT of testimonials from ex-$sci folks who have said the opposite. Co$ makes me F'ing sick to my stomach. They lie more than Saddam Hussein....sheesh
  32. orly Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Yeah, he's got a point -- psychiatry is basically a sitting duck for random accusations, because they have less hard facts that other sciences (I mean, you can study many meds and diseases by doing questionably ethical treatments to animals, but many psychiatric problems are human-specific as far as diagnosis and monitoring goes). And I agree that America's overmedicated especially in the case of kids and ADHD and whatever (lol but I blame parents).

    But yeah -- think we could get some recent first-hand testimonials about ex-Scis who need meds, or something? I know about Tory and her epilepsy meds that she needs, but I don't know how many others there are.
  33. XenuLovesU Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    I would like to hear more about them canvassing a place like that. That could be something harpoonable.
  34. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    It is sadly rumour and hearsay since I did not witness it myself. I worked for the old Winged Fellowship as a volunteer for large quantities of time. (It is now called Vitalise).

    It is mainly other volunteers telling me about it since I was on first aid and handling for disabled guests rather than dealing with mentally ill guests. It is hard to get concrete proof on that. I shall ask old volunteers who worked on mental illness weeks, but I have not been in contact with them since I stopped volunteering myself.
  35. none given Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up


    Now there's a base. Divisible by everything but five.

    Base 12 owns the measurement of time.
  36. Hostile Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    except when it doesn't (like days in a year, minutes in hour, seconds in hour

    though 12 x 5 = 60...

    why god? why didn't we have twelve fingers?

    but then again 10 makes for an excellent placeholder value.

    why are we talking about advanced math?

    let's start thinking of how they could spin this further...

    given their limited ability to adapt and come up with original content, I'd be willing to bet that more psych drugs will be to blame according to them

    also, I have no reason to doubt that they're going to make travolta feel bad for his loss by saying it could have been preventable by more scientology.
    thus they get to make travolta get depressed, stressed etc and come in for audits, AND the other members come in to make sure they aren't at risk for such things
  37. amaX Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Yes, godammit! This is the best they can do!
  38. Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Classic "acceptable truth." They managed to completely dodge directly addressing the issue while sounding like they did.

    Many psychiatric drugs are used for the treatment of epilepsy & they do not address whether they consider epilepsy a valid illness.
  39. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    The key words are "when physically ill". How often does Scientology define an illness as something physical or, instead, as something to do with ethics, witholds, overts?

    It's time we watch carefully for Scilon websites being scrubbed clean of anything that might dirty their image and it's time we collect as many dox and links as possible to show just how much they are lying. I'd suggest another thread for links to hard dox?
  40. Yoni Alter Member

    Re: Scientology Spin Machine Fires Up

    Now I've heard ex-Scilons on OCMB talking about how some Scientologists don't take anything, or even immunize their kids. It came up in a discussion of why they just didn't all get pneumonia shots so they could read OTIII. My impression is that what the hardcore people do (which would include people like Cruise and Travolta) and what the official church stance is are two different things.

    Scilons don't just attack psych drugs; they attack drugs that have psychological side affects, including depression, mood changes, irritability, and other really obscure things listed on the back of your bill bottle. If Scientology had its way, every drug I am taking now would be off the market and I would be dead. It's pretty hard to die from Crohn's Disease, but without medicine or hospital care I'm sure I could manage it.

    IN THE PRESS they go after soft targets like Ritalin, which most parents feel anxious about anyway. People have been talking about how Ritalin is over-prescribed since they started prescribing it. Some people do view it as an ethical issue, as some lazy parents will attribute their child's inability to pay attention in school (because school is boring) to something they can treat with a pill. The Ritalin contains a stimulant, the kid can concentrate better, and everyone arguably wins, but it doesn't address the initial problem of why the kid was bored in school.

    I was prescribed Ritalin when I was very young, before it was a big thing, and I had to keep it secret that at lunch I had to leave and go get a pill from the nurse. The only other person in school taking the pill was the kid who liked to set fires to things. My parents dropped the drug after about 6 months, as it did absolutely nothing for me, and they were able to rule out ADD as the problem behind my poor grades and social skills. Turns out I was just a nerd.

    The problem with the Scientology line is that
    (a) Ritalin does help a lot of kids and adults
    (b) a pinch of prevention is better than a pound of cure
    (c) Ritalin is pretty harmless, and if there are no positive results you just pull the kid off it
    (d) Scientology LIES about its side effects, associating it with street drugs and things that are actually toxic to you. Ritalin is only toxic to you if you are taking another drug that conflicts with it or if you are allergic to one of the ingredients for some reason.

    Ritalin is, I'm assuming, their first major battle, with others planned. I mean, why stop there, when you can get ALL drugs de-legitimized and have everyone pay for purification rundowns instead?

    Also old school Scientologists believe that smoking cures lung cancer. For serious.

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