Scientology sued for Fraud! It's going DOWN like bird sh**! (The Garcia Suit)

Discussion in 'Media' started by BlackRob, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. RolandRB Member

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  2. Anonymous Member

    I ROFLMAO!!!
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  3. Anonymous Member

    There's no proof "dirty nukes" exist.
  4. OTeleventy Member

    Hmm. Dirty or clean? Dirty or clean? Well, I guess I'd take my chances with dirty. But yeah, they exist, at least theoretically.

    [...] In a particularly harsh scenario, according to Bruce Blair of the Center for Defense Information, a truck bomb with 100 pounds of one-year-old spent nuclear fuel, when detonated, would create an acute health threat in the radius of a few city blocks.
    Experts say that building a dirty bomb is not difficult but obtaining the radioactive material is. The most deadly materials, including weapons-grade plutonium or uranium or freshly spent nuclear fuel, are the most difficult to obtain. Less damaging materials, such as radium or certain cesium isotopes used in medical treatments are easier to acquire.

    The term dirty bomb also refers to any nuclear weapon that generates a lot of radioactive waste, such as early nuclear weapons. These inefficient weapons consumed less than 2 percent of fissile material during the initial explosion, leaving a lot of waste. Some nuclear weapons are even designed to include elements such as cobalt that deliberately create long-lasting nuclear fallout when detonated.
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  5. Anonymous Member

    Right, I should have said "dirty nukes have never been used, provably".
  6. muldrake Member

    That doesn't apply to the Cornerstone Club donations, which were specifically for a building that remains unfinished. It also doesn't apply to the IAS donations, though the argument is stronger there, because I believe all they really care about with the IAS is avoiding discovery into where exactly the money goes.
  7. Daverator Member

    Extra pimpalicious:

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  8. RolandRB Member

    It would destroy the Church if they revealed where IAS donation go to because that would give away their battle plan against the psyches and Big Pharma. This must be kept secret. Scientologists will just have to donate more to compensate if people ask for their donations back.

    As for the Cornerstane Club then so long as there is a cornerstone for each Club member then I don't see what the problem is.
  9. muldrake Member

    This is why, in the past, they've rapidly settled any case that threatened discovery into the finances of the IAS. Much more quickly than they should be settling, considering that at least in theory, they have no legal obligation to return donations that were made with no anticipation of anything in return.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Anonymous Member

    Making David Miscavige the personification of Scientology helps the "change over" when he inevitably goes. While the public, media, and gullible wogs will be cheering from the sidelines as the "few bad eggs" go over the rainbow, it will be a case of meet the new boss, just like the old boss and Scientology gets away with past crimes. Again.
  11. Random guy Member

    Not so sure. The wogs aren't as gullible as they were in 1986. And nothing seems to be happening quietly these days.
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  12. On one of the the UC Berkeley lectures on youtube, under 'physics for presidents', Professor Richard A. Muller dispels the myth that spent nuclear fuel would be useful in a 'dirty bomb.' Plutonium is about as toxic as botulism.

    Essentially, plutonium does not explode into particles which would be useful as an airborne toxin.
  13. DeathHamster Member

    What a strange thing to say. Botulism is deadly stuff.
  14. Death rates used to be high years ago, but now death from botulism is very uncommon. That is to say, only a very small number of people who are infected with it actually die. Infection rates are also lower.

    The myth about plutonium is that it is the most toxic substance of all. So by comparison, to it's formidable reputation among some, likening it to botulism is to put it closer to its actual toxicity. If you were unaware of the myth, it would seem strange.

    tl;dr a so called 'dirty bomb' would be completely ineffective as a weapon in comparison to a biological or chemical weapon. Chemical weapons are a srs threat. Very easy to make, very easy to distribute, high kill rate. Scary stuff.
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  15. DeathHamster Member

    Oh wait, the Rajneeshee cult used salmonella as a weapon rather than botulism, silly me, never mind.
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  16. Anonymous Member

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  17. The Wrong Guy Member

    State investigating possible insurance fraud by Narconon

    Controversial clinic uses methods of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard

    By Christian Boone, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Friday, Feb. 1, 2013

    Georgia Insurance Commissioner Ralph Hudgens said his office is investigating a Norcross drug rehabilitation clinic that recently had its license revoked by the state.

    Narconon of Georgia stands accused of billing a patient’s insurer $166,275 for doctor visits that never occurred and treatment that was never provided, according to the mother of a recent client.

    “It’s almost like a case of identity theft if there were services that were not rendered but were billed for,” Hudgens told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, which, along with our news partners, Channel 2 Action News and WSB Radio, has investigated the rehab facility over the last several months.

    Narconon denies any wrongdoing and says it follows standard billing procedures for rehabilitation facilities.

    The state Department of Community Health has been looking into Narconon for a decade regarding complaints that the clinic – licensed only for outpatient care — was illegally operating a residential facility. In December, the DCH announced the facility’s license revocation based partly on findings by the AJC. Narconon of Georgia has appealed.

    An investigation by the insurance commissioner could have more serious consequences for the clinic, which bases its treatment on the teachings of Church of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard.

    Unlike the DCH, “We have teeth,” said Hudgens, who has assigned a team of investigators under the supervision of Fraud Division Chief Drew Lane. “We have been successful in getting fraud prosecuted.”

    Insurance fraud carries a punishment of up to 10 years in prison.

    The insurance commissioner’s investigation arises from a complaint by Mary Morton of Rome, who said she discovered unauthorized claims to her insurer, United Health Care, for partial hospitalization and “intensive outpatient services” rendered to her 19-year-old daughter, who enrolled in Narconon of Georgia in March 2012.

    Morton said she was told at the time her insurance wouldn’t cover her daughter’s treatment. So she paid Narconon of Georgia $15,000 – in advance and for the total cost of treatment, according to her contract — along with another $1,600 per month for housing.

    A few months later Morton, visiting her daughter, was confronted by then-clinic director Mary Rieser, who told her United Health Care had yet to reimburse Narconon.

    “And I asked her, ‘If they reimbursed at all they would reimburse us, because we paid in full,’” Morton told the AJC. “And she said she wasn’t aware of what our contract was.”

    Later that day Rieser told Morton not to worry – Narconon would cover the costs of the doctor’s visits.

    “I just thought that was very strange,” she said.

    When Morton got home she pulled up her account online.

    “They were billing an average of $4,800 a week of intensive care,” she said. “Not sure what that really was, because there wasn’t any [intensive care].”

    And the doctor visits never occurred, according to Morton, who shared copies of the charges with the AJC.

    “She had been sent home for a total of three weeks for disciplinary action. They billed for the whole time she was at home,” Morton said.

    Morton’s daughter left Narconon of Georgia in late October yet United Health Care was billed for treatments in November, according to documents provided by her mother.

    “They’re double and triple billing for things that never occurred, and the end result is she didn’t get any better,” Mary Morton said.

    Two doctors were named in the claims: Lisa Robbins at the Robbins Health Care Alliance in Stone Mountain and Casey Locarnini at Dunwoody Urgent Care Clinic.

    Robbins, in a statement sent through a spokesman, said she “never authorized Narconon or anyone associated with Narconon to bill any insurance. We have not seen any of Narconon’s students in several years.”

    That includes Morton’s daughter.

    “If they indeed did bill under Dr. Robbins, this is insurance fraud,” according to the statement.

    Locarnini’s attorney, Doug Chalmers, said his client served notice “a number of weeks ago … that he was terminating his contract with Narconon.” Chalmers said his firm was hired to investigate the “billing issues.”

    Narconon of Georgia, responding through its attorney, Barbara Marschalk, said it follows “customary and usual billing practices and procedures and that [its] payment terms are clearly explained.”

    According to Marschalk’s statement, her client believes the media has been “manipulated by persons who are biased against Narconon and who believe they can profit by stirring up negative publicity just before a trial on completely unrelated issues.”

    That trial begins in a few weeks in DeKalb County State Court. Narconon of Georgia is accused of being liable for the 2008 death of Patrick Desmond, who overdosed on a mix of alcohol and opiates while a patient at the clinic. Desmond’s parents say they were duped into believing the facility provided in-patient care – as mandated by a Florida drug court – even though it lacked the proper license.

    Those accusations will go uncontested due to the withdrawal of Narconon of Georgia’s response, as ordered by Judge Stacey Hydrick in November. She ruled the nonprofit “intentionally, willfully and repeatedly provided false and misleading responses to plaintiff’s discovery requests regarding issues relevant to the resolution of this case.”

    Narconon of Georgia, operating in Norcross since 2001, remains open as it prepares to appeal its license revocation. That process could take several months.

    Source, and open comments:
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  18. RightOn Member

    they can appeal all they want
    I think this new investigation seals the deal
    they are prolly already looking for a new location under another name
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  19. RolandRB Member

    The Narconon ex-executives are probably being gang-bang-sec-checked at Flag (the friendliest place on the planet) right at this moment. They will make full confessions in their suicide notes and be found together in a burnt out van that has its windows sealed, with a pipe coming in from the exhaust. This will absolve the Church and David Miscavige of any blame and prevent any investigation of Narconon accounts with a view to finding out where most of the money went. The suicide notes will say they wasted the money on gambling and the stock market. End of investigation!
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  20. anon walker Moderator

    Gotta wonder if Mary Rieser will show up for court...
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  21. RolandRB Member

    If she does, some people might mistake her for a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken.
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  22. RolandRB Member

    I think people have no idea how far this is going to go. Once the books of Narconon are opened and they see all the money movements and they see that many very large withdrawals were done in cash over decades then it will eventually be clear that this money was going to the "Church". And then they take the "Church" finances apart and then no more "Church".
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  23. Anonymous Member

  24. DeathHamster Member

    It was all David Miscavige's fault!
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  25. The Wrong Guy Member

    Tony Ortega has written an update on this.


    In January, Scientology was hit with a stunning lawsuit by former church member Luis Garcia and his wife Rocio. Alleging fraud, the Garcias say they were treated as suckers by the church in its various fundraising efforts. The case is being closely watched because there are a lot of other former church members who say they are still owed money by Scientology, which is not giving refunds.

    Last week, Scientology’s attorneys made their first reaction to the case, filing a motion so the various church entities named in the suit could file a joint response of 45 pages this week, rather than the 25 pages allowed by local rules.

    Ted Babbitt, Garcia’s attorney, tells us his side agreed, but federal judge James D. Whittemore denied the request, limiting Scientology to 25 pages.

    Also, Scientology’s document gives an indication of how their response is going to go:

    The Plaintiffs have a 28 year relationship with the various Church of Scientology entities joined as Defendants in this matter, and the joint motion will cover the nature of that relationship in some detail, including, numerous written arguments to arbitrate and to utilize other dispute resolution procedures. The motion will also involve questions of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, the Federal Arbitration Act (and cases construing it), The Florida Arbitration Act (and cases construing it), and the interrelationship of those two arbitration acts, Florida Contract Law, and the relationships of the five defendants to each other.

    That is a lot to get into 25 pages, and no doubt Scientology’s attorneys are working overtime to get it ready for Wednesday, when it’s due.

    But it also shows that the church’s strategy is going to be the same that it was in a similar refund lawsuit, brought in state court by Lynne Hoverson and Bert Schippers. In that case, Scientology argued that church members sign binding contracts that force them to seek refunds through in-house arbitration. And the church’s First Amendment rights to freedom of religion prevented the state court from intervening in the process. The state judge in that case agreed with the church.

    Hoverson and Schippers could not convince the judge that Scientology’s arbitration scheme put them in a classic Catch-22 situation, which requires them to seek redress from a panel of church members, who would have no interest in granting their request.

    Babbitt says the church will try to put the Garcias in the same bind.

    Continued at
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  26. Anonymous Member

  27. RightOn Member

    I don't think scilons know how to be less "wordy".
    I can't imagine the mountain of crap they have on members and the storage space needed to house it. That's an awful lot of tax exempt real estate to house all that dirty laundry that tax payers have to help pick up the tab for.
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  28. The Wrong Guy Member

    Tony Ortega has another update. He just posted this on Facebook:

    BREAKING: Scientology's response to the Garcia federal fraud lawsuit is pretty much what we expected. Scientology's attorneys are trying to convince Judge Whittemore that the Garcias should resolve their problems through the church's own arbitration scheme, and that court intervention violates Scientology's First Amendment rights. We have the 25-page motion to compel.

    Scientology Response to Federal Lawsuit: Force The Garcias to Use Church Arbitration

    We’ve just got our hands on the Church of Scientology’s response to the federal fraud lawsuit filed by Luis and Rocio Garcia.

    As we expected, Scientology is asking federal judge James Whittemore to compel the Garcias to accept Scientology’s own internal arbitration system to resolve this dispute, and throw it out of federal court.

    As in previous cases, Scientology will be trying to convince Whittemore that the Garcias signed various agreements as church members that they would resolve matters through Scentology’s own “ethics” system. And any attempt for a civil court to intervene would be a violation of the church’s First Amendment rights. After the jump, we have the 25-page document.

    We’re looking forward to analysis by our excellent commenting community, several of whom are attorneys.

    We have exhibits coming soon and will post them as soon as we can.

    Continued with comments at
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  29. DeathHamster Member

    Some day, some one is going to crack that wall. When that happens, it all falls down.
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  30. Quentinanon Member

    The "arbitration scheme" by a panel of brainwashed cult recruits church members is new. As recruits are under a great deal of coercion, any decision would be in the cult's favour.
    BTW, for a contract to have validity, consideration must be remitted to the party thus bound. I don't see the consideration in this contract. Furthermore, as fraud is alleged, fraud voids contracts as well.
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  31. How do they figure it's the corporation that has the First Amendment rights? I always thought the rights belonged to individual citizens.
  32. DeathHamster Member

    Not my country or constitution, but this would probably be the "establishment clause" part of the 1st amendment.

    Umm. You do know that from the Age of Enlightenment onwards, governments don't bestow rights on citizens. We inherently have those rights. Governments that refuse to recognize that get stood up against a wall and shot.
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  33. Nevertheless, the first ten amendments to the US constitution are known collectively as the Bill of Rights. Wikipedia, as usual, has a good article on it, as well as an article specifically on the Establishment Clause for anyone who's curious about our frequent references here to First Amendment rights, and the associated arguments Religious Technology Corporation regularly attempts to invoke.

    Essentially, this clause was intended to prevent the government from setting up a national religion, but it's since been interpreted to cover a great many other situations.
  34. The Wrong Guy Member

    Today Tony has another update on this:


    Yesterday, we posted the Church of Scientology’s response to the federal fraud lawsuit filed by Luis and Rocio Garcia. (Actually it was a response from three of the five church entities being sued, but you get the point.)

    As we predicted, the church’s strategy is to convince federal judge James Whittemore that because the Garcias signed certain agreements as church members, they should be compelled to submit their fraud and refund claims to the church’s own internal arbitration scheme.

    We are reminded, however, of a previous story we did on a similar case. Some smart attorney types pointed out to us that a very similar precedent has already rejected what Scientology wants done in this lawsuit.

    That previous case involved another Clearwater, Florida corporation — Hooters restaurants, of all things.

    Hooters made a similar argument when an employee sued for how she was treated. Hooters argued that she had signed contracts which required her to submit to Hooters internal arbitration.

    But the court found that “arbitration” is all well and good — as long as it’s independent arbitration. In other words, Hooters couldn’t require an employee to arbitrate and select the arbitrators.

    Well, that’s exactly what Scientology is attempting to do in this case. Scientology wants the court to force the Garcias into arbitration, but instead of then submitting their claim to third-party, independent arbitrators, it wants the Garcias to submit to a three-person panel of Scientologists to hear their complaints. In light of the Hooters case, what Scientology is asking for isn’t “arbitration” at all.

    It will be interesting to see if the Hooters case is raised in this case.

    We asked Manhattan attorney Scott Pilutik for his thoughts on the brief:

    Continued with comments at
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  35. RightOn Member

    the only time I have ever liked the "restaurant" (ahem) Hooters.
    they tried to screw one of their employees and the courts said nope.
    Thank you Hooters. I hope your failed attempts of internal arbitration helps the Garcia's case.
    uhh... this will be my only thank you to Hooters evar.
  36. another123 Member

    ahhh, Hooters & fine-print. It never gets old....
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  37. muldrake Member

    Short translation.

    "Hi, we're Scientology, we'd like to spam you with a bunch of bullshit."

    Judge's response: "No. Fuck off. Obey the rules like everyone else."

    Good sign.
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  38. Random guy Member

    Man, this is getting interesting? Does anyone know when the next action is?
  39. anon walker Moderator

    Like renaming the GO OSA? Yep, but this time, over a thousand ex-members will have something to say aboot it.
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  40. The Wrong Guy Member

    From Facebook, here's Tony's update tonight:

    BREAKING: The Garcias are responding tonight to the Church of Scientology's demand that their federal fraud lawsuit be thrown out in favor of the church's internal arbitration. And they're doing it with a series of declarations from major former church members, including Marty Rathbun. WE HAVE THE DOX.


    At the end of the article, don't miss the 2001 Scientology price list.
    • Like Like x 6

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