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"Scn = religion" meme inculcated

Discussion in 'Situation Rooms' started by Anonymous, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Oh, is that what happened? And here's me thinking he's a Marty loving moral fag but all the time he's just too clever for his own good.
  2. Anonymous Member

    And another example of the sophisticated techniques designed to disrupt and/or derail such chit chat as this. See, its all been gone over, there is no end point, its futile, you're wasting your time, its useless . . . and yet here it is, even after having suffered 9000 previous such dead ends, posting to let us know.
  3. The Internet Member

    So we agree.
  4. Asheera Member

    And when the poster is not nor has ever been in scn...?
  5. The Internet Member

    I have no idea what you're talking about.
  6. Asheera Member

    I suspect similar for other 'public' they engage with....
  7. Anonymous Member

    DOX or GTFO
  8. Anonymous Member

    But that's not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

    And obviously it does matter who thinks Scientology is a religion.

    Ask the Headleys.
  9. Asheera Member

    I think it might be a worthwhile investment of your time to look into the concept of 'efficacy' when it comes to argumentation. Just sayin'
  10. Anonymous Member

    Exactly!

    It's bullshit artistry.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Heh! I love it when mods strut about dropping reminders of their superiority by hinting at what they might or might not know because of their access to Anon user names. Would someone tell Sue he really needs to get more mods aged over 14.

    Meanwhile, my take away from this fun exercise is that there is little tolerance here at this moment among the users participating in working towards weakening Scientology's most powerful weapon in the PR arena. I'm not sure what to put it down to? My approach, are youse all from the US and suffering the cultural baggage of religion's influence upon its bedraggled society, has there been a change of cohort and now the moral fags are the majority working to protect the rights of non-cult scientologists to apply the mindfuck in the wild? Oh, never mind. For now. I'll be back. Round 9001 in the Strip The Exemption campaign (membership about 1) coming to a thread near you.
  12. Anonymous Member

    I love it when a wee dart hits home. Hurt did it?
  13. Asheera Member

    You could read the various arguments that have been forwarded and *gasp* try taking some of those at their word...?
  14. Random guy Member

    You'll have no argument from me there. I was answering the guy who wrote:

    ''All it really needs to be is logically irrefutable for effective use in argument and it is in the use of argument which will deliver the popular support and academic endorsement even if only to not look any more foolish than most of them do already.''

    I dunno who you are.

    No, I said that that the Xenu story is where the cult comes close to being an actual religion. I never said it was the only mythos the cult has (though arguably the best known bit).

    I don't know if I'm debating one or more guy here, so I'm wasting my time.
  15. Anonymous Member

    [/quote]

    The Xenu story is not a creation myth.

    It's a super duper traumatic incident (a super "engram") that affected billions of beings 75 million years ago, etc.

    The procedures used to remove its effects are, if anything, a kind of wacky psychotherapy and hypnosis.

    It's not religion.

    And it's not a "creation myth."

    It's an "Incident," which is a literal time, place, form, and event, per Scientology's Axioms.

    See Axiom 38, which was written when Scientology was a "science" and before Hubbard started telling wogs it's a religion.

    There's nothing inherently "religious" about Xenu, and OT 3, etc.

    And the procedure for addressing it are simply a nutty form of hypo-psychotherapy.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. The Internet Member

    Hey Hare Krishna guy,

    You got me on the "go back to the gold standard thread." I was truly guilty of not reading closely enough there. But this time I think you share some responsibility for my confusion because your writing could be clearer. I don't blame you; my writing often could be clearer as well.

    Also note that in this thread we've got the "everybody who disagrees with me is OSA" Anonymous posters as well as some "fuck Rinder/Rathbun" stuff, which puts us all at risk of brain cancer. It is a miracle two human beings can have a conversation at all in this place.

    Just to point out one thing that wasn't clear to me:

    I read the first guy as saying, the religion angle is a waste of time because we can't tell a real religion from a fake religion.

    Next comes you talking about "dismantling the religion talking point." That sets me up to expect moar "it's not a religion"stuff.

    Plus when you say, "This is part of the argument..." I don't know what "this" refers to as there are about three ideas in the quoted bit: 1. real verses fake religion, 2. Scientology gaming the system 3. popular notion that religions are good.

    When I'm unsure of someone's meaning, my brain automatically fills in the gaps with *something.* Can't be helped. In this case, I hallucinated that the author intended to convince me that we should challenge the public's tendency to view Scientology as a religion.

    Thus when I read your point about "religion" verses "religious organization," I read it in that light. You're granting that Scientology is a religion, but should not be classified as a religious organization.

    Until we have a public benefit test in the US for religious groups, I don't think the distinction helps. Look at Jonestown. That was a religious community, no question.
  17. Anonymous Member

    And what would you write on the form, "troll-ism"?
  18. Anonymous Member

    Please stop quoting Scientology shill J. Gordon Melton. I'm becoming nauseous.

    You are simply wrong.

    You need to get a J. Gordon Melton mind enema.
  19. The Internet Member

    I think the Xenu story is an "origins" story and I never read any Melton.

    The Xenu story explains where human beings come from and why we have to kill the psychs, right? So it gives all our lives a deeper meaning.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Not me. It was delightful to see one of Scientology's many sneaky mind game tactics succinctly explained, and exposed to the light of day.

    Bullshitting Scientology apologist:

    "It doesn't matter if Scientology is regarded as a religion because we need to change all the laws about all religions."

    Result, that's not going to happen = Scientology can claim to be a "religion" and be protected as such.
  21. Anonymous Member

    No, the psychs predate the 4th dynamic engram of 75 million years ago by a long ways. They invented sex, remember? When Xenu had the populations of all those planets called in for tax audits 75 million years ago and injected alcohol-glycol into their lungs and boxed them up in boxes and sent them in space planes to Teegeeack, there had been sex, and psychs, for a long time.
  22. The Internet Member

    A creation or an origins story doesn't have to explain the origin of *everything,* just really important stuff like where humans came from.
  23. The Internet Member

    Except no religion is protected from breaking the law.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Does human trafficking count as 'breaking the law'?
    • Like Like x 1
  25. The Internet Member

    If you can prove that it happened in a court of law then yes.
  26. Anonymous Member

    What if the people you are suing admit that what you claim regarding the actions they committed which constituted trafficking were true - would that count?
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Random guy Member

    1) I'm no fan of Melton. He's a shoddy scholar, mislead by trying to find an explanation for why he made a complete ass of himself in his youth. So stop telling me what I think, will you?

    2) You don't need to tell me scientology is a scam. Why do you think I'm hanging around this board? I'm trying to tell you the Xenu story is not the right tool if you want to convince the academics the cult is not a religion, because that sort of shit is comes close to sound actually religious, regardless of whether Hubbard meant it to be "an exact science" or not. Religious studies takes a somewhat broader view of things, and don't give a fart about if Hubbard intended it to be "science", just like they don't bother to consider whether the Vikings actually believed there was a burly guy with a hammer banging about every time they heard thunder.

    Or it may not have been you I was discussing this in the first place. GTFO or get a sock!
  28. The Internet Member

    Probably not. Civil courts have a different evidential standard as compared to criminal courts.
  29. Anonymous Member

    I'll cut to the chase - have you read the Judge Fischer's ruling in the Headley case?
  30. The Internet Member

    Nope.
  31. Anonymous Member

    http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/12/scientology-wins-major-court-ruling/
    Read that ^

    Sampling: "Even Claire Headley’s allegation that she was forced to have two abortions was treated as a matter of religious doctrine since “inquiry into these allegations would entangle the court in the religious doctrine of Scientology and the doctrinally motivated practices of the Sea Org.”"

    He also links the decision itself at the foot of the article just in case you think he was misrepresenting and/or exaggerating things.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Anonymous Member

    This is yet another reason why those who promote the idea that Scientology is a legitimate religion are at best dangerous fools.

    It's a slippery slope.

    Scientology has the word CHURCH on its buildings, etc., so people refer to it as "the Church."

    Even some critics fall into that trap.

    They would be so much more effective if they used the word CULT.
    • Like Like x 1
  33. The Internet Member

    Sorry I have a hard time following all that legal shit. Does any of it mean Scientology is not a religion?
  34. The Internet Member

    Scientology is a scam, a cult, a church, and a religion.
  35. Anonymous Member

    I didn't post it to address the "is it a religion?" claim. I posted it to provide a real-world example of why this comment was false:
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Anonymous Member


    The phrase "legitimate religion" is meaningless. I would call Scientology a religion but I wouldn't call it or any other religion "legitimate".

    I don't think anyone here is arguing that the Church of Scientology is essentially a criminal organization and that the fact it is viewed as a religious organization is the main reason it can get away with the stuff it does.

    Also, I assume we all agree that it would be great if that wasn't the case.

    However, I don't see that it's possible to solve the problem by coming up with the right definition of religion that somehow gets everyone to agree that Scientology isn't one.

    While some kind of public benefits would be great, the feds actually holding the CoS to the terms of their agreement and tax laws around religious groups would still do a lot of damage to the CoS.

    But even that is not going to happen without political backing.

    IMO, staying on target is making sure raw meat are inoculated against their woo and their scams, trying to keep their dirty laundry in the press and in the public mind, and trying to slip information on what they are really about to those who are still in.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Oh, but there are legitimate religions, and Scientology is not one of them.

    That aside, at least call it the CULT of Scientology instead of the CHURCH of Scientology.

    Don't help Scientology condition non Scientologists to see it as a CHURCH.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Scientology is able to break and bend the law routinely because of its religious cloaking.
  39. The Internet Member

    I have a friend who likes to play computer games until he breaks them by finding some exploit the game designers failed to notice. In this, he reminds me of Scientology.

    LRH was a tricksy bugger always looking for the exploit. And that's what he found in "religion."

    I would counter by pointing out the exploit: our tacit assumption that "religion" means some form of charitable benefit to our communities. Not every religion is going to be so generous.
    • Like Like x 1
  40. The Internet Member

    I will let smarter legal minds than mine decide if Scientology is guilty of human trafficking. So far, seems pretty muddy to me.

    I was hoping Anonymous would explain TR3. Is that the yelling at ashtrays thing? Or the staring thing.
    • Like Like x 1

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