Sheila Huber speaks out

Discussion in 'Fair Game Reports and Personal Experiences' started by Strong Strength, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. skeptic2girl Member

    SS, I am so very glad you guys set up these interviews and that Sheila was willing to speak so candidly. The videos are a combination of being fascinating, funny, and disturbing. I especially appreciate how Sheila explains the personalities of various Sea Org people and why they behaved certain ways.

    The Sea Org members are humanized but not excused. I feel enlightened as I listen to the stories.
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Malory Member

    It's a pity we can't get more info on this Shay/Shea guy. I mean I do believe it happened, but I'd love some hard dox.
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  3. Part 7: The Disappearing Money and the Fate of Al Crivello
    In this final video, Sheila tells about the plunder of AOLA's money reserves and the devastating outcome it had on one loyal staff member.

    Main parts:
    0:10 - Al Crivello's roles
    3:23 - Side story: Lose those keys
    4:16 - Caught in the middle
    5:14 - Guardian's Office Director of Income
    6:04 - A mysterious transfer
    8:11 - The secretly missing money
    9:59 - The aftermath

    Many thanks to Sheila and others who helped make these videos possible, as well as those who have helped spread her stories to other audiences.
    • Like Like x 6
  4. Gottabrain Member

    SS, a huge thank you for all your work on this. On a personal basis, it has given me tremendous peace to get this all out in the open. Especially this last vid. How do I thank one of the few truly kind people in the SO - a rare trait - and say thank you, Al, for all you've done - for me and so many others. His suicide death was tragic and a terrible waste of life for a beautiful human being. I heard his son Stevie took it very hard afterwards, too.

    Some info from my notes (written years ago): One transfer for $38 million from AOLA's Sumitomo Bank (in California) Reserve account to a numbered account in the Cayman Islands through USGO's Disbursement account.

    One transfer for approx $72 million to another numbered overseas account (location unknown, thought to be Switzerland) from USGO's Disbursement account (same account). Both transferred in and out within 24 hrs.

    One signatory on one (name unknown to us), two signatories on the other (both names unknown to us).

    Then Martin (Marvin?) got in trouble because the office was sound recorded and I was not allowed to see the rest of the transfers. All of AOLA's reserves were transferred out to numbered, untraceable overseas accounts through USGO's account. This was in '79-'80. AOLA's money was part of the "Church of Scientology of California" that Larry Wollersheim was suing. Orgs like AOLA continued to report the money in reserves years after it had been transferred out.

    There isn't a shred of evidence that any of the Church of Scn of California's monies were in gold at that time. Perhaps years later. I wouldn't know anything about what occurred after that time. As far as Wollersheim, the monies were simply transferred out via the USGO account. Nobody ever audited the USGO accounts or even asked for them, nor did anyone subpoena for the bank books to AOLA's or any other reserve accounts. That in itself was very odd to me at the time of the Wollersheim case. Heber Jentsch even announced to the SO staff that the money that was under "Church of Scientology of California" was all transferred out so that "not one thin dime would go to Wollersheim" and CSC was considered bankrupt and that scn had created new corporate entities.

    Skepticgirl, thank you so much for this. Keep in mind that in some places, in some time periods, we had a bit more freedom than in other time periods or places, but these were brief and always, inevitably, came to a tragic end. Al Crivello's life was all of that. On another thread, someone said that those moments can never be re-created. The compulsion to do so is something like a heroin addict who keeps chasing his first high, or the crazy woman who keeps getting pregnant after 15 babies because she keeps wanting to re-live the thrill of giving birth, or the gambler who has a big win and spends the rest of his life chasing that or wanting to top it.

    In a way, it's all the same thing and people are the same wherever you go.

    There are two major differences though. One is that Scn does all it can to tie up a person's time and energy, to cut them off from other influences so the person has very little chance of freeing themselves from the trap.

    The other difference is that Anons can really do something about this evil. Scn has already been seriously crippled by Anons. Twenty years from now it will be nothing more than some weird quirky religion nobody ever even bothered to mention in history books.
    • Like Like x 10
  5. xenubarb Member

    Hella short story:,_Secret_Snow

    Craziest crazy short I ever read made me insane and grateful I didn't have wallpaper.

    I also have a couple of very old, unwashed fairy tales in which evil stepmothers are nailed into barrels and rolled down hills, or forced to put on red-hot iron shoes and dance til they fell dead.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. xenubarb Member

    No, no, Tom Cruise said that was SPs!
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  7. SPRTT Member

    I still have my copies of those stories. They had it coming!
    • Like Like x 1
  8. skeptic2girl Member

    GB, you lost me a little bit and what you're saying is really interesting, so I want to understand... re: moments that can never be revreated. Were you referring to specific moments?
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Gottabrain Member

    Sorry I didn't say it more clearly, skepticgirl.

    It was Sponge, on the Debbie Cook update thread, who said it best. Sponge said:

    "I say let the woman dream on all she likes about hubbard riding a unicorn through fields of butterflies under a rainbow. The thing is, there isn't ever going to be the same unique conditions coming together that allowed the original hubbard train to leave the station and pick up steam. That first and last hubbard express steamed into the buffers years ago, remained in a state of salvage ever since and it just aint going to get fired up again, not unless you can de-invent the internet, unprint/unrecord all the critical books/newsmedia, put psycotherapy back to 1950s standards and then somehow make eveyone unknow what they already know about this cult and the screaming nutjob who invented it."

    What I meant was, there were some good moments here and there. I think I explained that pretty well in the vids. If it were all constantly abuse, nobody would ever see anything worthwhile in Scn. The unique conditions of the 60s & 70s, of the idealistic people who joined and many other things are what gave Scn the headstart it did. Those conditions are gone and will never repeat themselves - and they all eventually resulted in tragedy despite the best efforts or intentions of some very good people, because Scientology itself was creating the very environment of oppression and insanity that it claimed to cure.
    • Like Like x 5
  10. Incredulicide Member

    I just learned I can post directly to the recent activity page by posting a status message from my profile page, so I hope you don't mind I decided to make that into a quote :)
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Chipshotz Member

    Thank you Sheila, SS and everyone involved in these videos. Powerful stuff.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Anonymous Member

    Amazing story, Sheila. Watching these vids makes me grateful for my very boring and minimal drama life (and that is not meant as a disrespectful or disparaging comment).
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Gottabrain Member

    Funny you should say that.

    I used to pray for a boring life. :rolleyes:

    There's an Australian man who has, by incredible coincidence, actually been at three terrorist bombings (9/11, London and Bali). He's no terrorist, just a regular guy.

    Makes one wonder how some people can have so little excitement in their lives that they become addicted to television soap operas and others fall unknowingly into the deep of every woods, constantly chopping through thickets of violence and/or insanity.

    Perhaps youth and innocence are magnets to pedophiles, perverts and pufftards of something to destroy. Perhaps the world's constant efforts to achieve balance throws a few kernels of opposites in places. Perhaps it's the Law of Random - theoretically, that all random things are not really random because statistically, there must be extremes on both ends and the randoms then are no longer random.

    Really, I have no idea. Do you?

    Boring would be just fine, though.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Yup. With 7 billion people in the world, all kinds of things that are highly unlikely to happen to any person in particular are in fact highly likely to happen to someone.

    In your example, if you pick any person randomly the chance of them having been at those three wrong places at the wrong time is about one in 7 billion, which is pretty close to zero. Compare those odds with say the probability of winning a $250 million lottery which are about one in a half-billion. So a person is 14 times more likely to win a $250 million lottery than to have been at those three terrorists attacks. But because there are 7 billion people in the world, odds are good that someone was at all three.

    There's nothing mysterious or supernatural going on.
  15. Gottabrain Member

    ^^^ I like this.



    I love math, esp. statistics, as well as the hard sciences. Let's take this even further - if the odds are 1 in 7 million, then there is a 50/50 chance that one person of 3.5 million would be at all three places. :D

    A good friend of mine who is an ex recently hooked up with an Anon atheist. He's well grounded in facts and she feels freer and more alive than she ever did before.

    There is comfort in dealing with what is known.
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Anonymous Member

    Also real power, as opposed to the fake "OT" power.
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Gottabrain Member

    Yes. Small words, huge concept. Not just "OT", but any sort of unknown, any sort of supernatural or spiritual (v. humane) anything.

    Power is the wealth of actual knowledge v superstition on which one can, and does, build confidence.

    Confidence is the personal power that one gains from demonstrating skills and success with this knowledge.

    What am I missing? Seems there is something more...
    • Like Like x 1
  18. adhocrat Member

    Gottabrain = true statement
    That sums up the premise of Philip Zimbardo's book The Lucifer Effect. He's the one did the Stanford Prison Experiment. The thesis is that a bad system corrupts all the players.

    I think the math may be wrong. I might be wrong but I'm certain:

    A person would have a one in 7B chance at being at any ONE of those events. He would have a (1/7B)^2 chance of having been at two and a (1/7B)^3 chance of being at all three. That's if all else were equal. Meaning I'd love to meet that gentlemen. He may be the most statistically unlikely person on the face of the earth. But I'm pretty sure that a statistician could tell me the fallacy of my statement, since we are restricting the survey only to those who were in the vicinity of a terrorist attack. Beyond my pay grade.

    Just for comparison (I recently had reason to research this) The odds of dying in a car accident are in the scores of thousands to 1 (≈20K IIRC), plane accident one in 400K, a terrorist attack, 1 in 2M or more. So it's not surprising that I don't know anyone who was killed in a plane crash or terrorist attack but know of several friends and family who have died in car accidents.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. adhocrat Member

    I think you are equivocating (and in public!)

    You are conflating personal power with political power. IMHO they are essentially contradictory concepts. Power over another negates power over self.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anonymous Member

    Nope. Considering that there were hundreds of people at each of these attacks you're off by 2-3 orders of magnitude. The probability of being at one event is about one in 7 million.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Gottabrain Member

    :p Not intentionally. I'll never be an atheist, but since your comments, I actually get the atheist view. Actually, I get it about 95%. Aside from extreme atheists who feel it is their mission to enlighten everyone of the evils of religion, atheism is fine, even a good thing.

    But that other 5% - I think striving to reach a better understanding or a new theory of that which is not tangible and how it all works together as a whole is not a bad thing. Believing there is a higher truth and higher spiritual nature is not a bad or irrational thing, either, and top mathematicians such as Godel & Einstein were quite religious/spiritual in their beliefs. To me, the key is - how does one stay grounded? Einstein stayed grounded. Okay, Einstein would neglect personal hygiene or barely eat for days at a time when he was researching something that captured his interest. He wasn't a good husband or family man, either, but he didn't lose his mind. Godel eventually lost his, though. Where does one draw the line? HOW does one pursue those sorts of questions and stay completely grounded?

    Maybe I'm not wording the question right and maybe there is still something a bit off in my thinking and I'm sorry I'm not more concise, but hopefully, you understand what I mean.

    This is good, a new concept to me. Please tell me more.
    • Like Like x 2
  22. adhocrat Member

    this is all tl;dr but here goes:
    We've been discussing that issue for 5000 years. That leads me to believe there is no answer.
    One thing about spirituality is that an atheist doesn't believe in the spirit, so it's hard to be spiritual. But as the lecture I heard said, and the song as well, come to think of it, we really are stardust. So we share our common origins inside massive suns that went nova, thereby creating the building blocks of the universe.

    Correct me if this doesn't make sense, but whether you are religious or not, I think that our purpose on earth is to find out what we are capable of achieving. A religious person might ascribe it to God, while an atheist might ascribe to our nature, but either way, the result is our attempting to become the best person we can become, as defined by ourselves as necessarily filtered through our society.

    tl;dr Anyway, definition one said "ability to act in a particular way" meaning, the way I chose to act. Defintion two says "ability to direct... other."
    Those two concepts directly contradict each other. It is not that the definition is wrong, but that the concepts truly are diametrically opposed to each other, ie one power negates the other power.

    When power is used by the person it is work or purposeful action.
    When power is used by one person against another it is force.

    A basic axiom for me is all human action is purposeful. We act in order to achieve an end or goal. But if my actions are thwarted by another, then my ability to live my life is constricted by that much. We all know how frustrating it can be to be inexplicably thwarted in a goal by some rule or regulation that makes no sense and is enforced without thought. ("She brought a butter knife to school. Knives are forbidden, therefore she will be suspended for three days. A rule is a rule after all.")

    I use my power, that is my ability to act on my highest purpose, to take actions that I hope will result in an end, such as cooking dinner or inventing the light bulb.

    If I want to do something but another doesn't want me to do it, he has two methods available to stop me. One, he can use persuasion and reason, appeal to my humanity, whatever verbal means he can summon to convince me of the wrongness of my intended action.

    Two, he can use physical means, ie, actual physical power. We talk of the power of speech, but we understand that to be an appeal to reason. We understand that physical power used against a person is force.

    If his power of persuasion fails, then he has two choices. Leave me to live my life and let me suffer the consequences, or use power to stop me. At that point you see that power now means political (def 2) power, not personal (def 1) power. His method of stopping me from achieving my goal is to use force, which thwarts my intention, therefore (def 2) power negates (def 1) power.

    My other basic axiom is that you don't initiate the use of force, so he would be wrong to use physical force to stop me. He can't know better than me what is right for me. (and yes, that lacks nuance, but this is not a forum to explore philosophy)

    None of this means I can't submit myself willingly. “I'll be here every morning at 7am, Monday through Friday.” But if I don't want to show up for work the boss can't come get me and force me to work, all he can do is persuade me to return (and why would he) or fire me. So our power cannot be given up except through an act of will, in the same manner that I can sign over power of attorney to someone, but I can also rescind it at any time.

    To put it in scientologese, it is self intention versus other intention. But of course, COS makes other intention become self intention (COMMAND INTENTION, sorry, I'll stop shouting.) Same sort of thing, but COS uses propaganda to 'persuade' you that black is white.
    Propaganda is a form of fraud.
    • Like Like x 6
  23. Gottabrain Member

    Thank God, Zeus, the Big Bang or whatever. I thought it was just me! :)

    Nice. Simple. Workable. I likes.

    Okay. I get what you mean now. Nice insight, adhocrat.

    Very cool, elegantly simple.

    Thank you, adhocrat.

    quote="adhocrat, post: 2075248, member: 15610"]To put it in scientologese...[/quote]

    No, please don't. I haven't thought in Scientologese in two decades and it actually gives me headaches. Talking about things in the past that happened at COS is different. One sort of "falls into it", like speaking a foreign language or even taking on an accent when remembering an extended time spent in another country. That's the past, not the present.

    Adhocrat, please let me explain where I'm coming from.

    I wasn't trying to rope you into any big philosophical discussion, but you and the Anon accidentally hit a hot area. When I left Scn (over two decades ago), I really left it - language, friends, all of it, like at least a half million people have done who ever got involved in Scn over the years. EXCEPT - it wasn't until many years later that I realized that some of my thinking was a bit... off. So I hooked up with exscn and you guys and found that Scn was still doing the same shit, only worse! Made me FURIOUS! So I got involved in protesting and all that and every now and then I run into something and have to re-evaluate my way of thinking - replace bad info with good info.

    I even (about 13 years ago) studied the entire fields of Sociology and Psychology (Bachelor's Degree) tofind and correct my thinking or any bad info. Back then, nobody discussed Scientology outside of COS and I didn't know of any exscn network, either. There were no cult recovery counselors... we who left were pretty much on our own to recover however we could. And I was still afraid of the big bad COS so chose to stay out of its nasty sights, too.

    How do I know there's a flaw in my thinking? I don't always know. I know when there is dissonance - cognitive or social, that it's probably a ripe area, but it's not always me. I know when I go from thinking clearly to thinking a bit vaguely (or supernaturally) that I've hit a hot area. I know when I do something I know is stupid that is in opposition to my personal goals that it's very likely a hot area (but not necessarily Scn).

    Now I'm being really candid with you, but maybe if I am it helps give you Anons more insight into what a person goes through on a personal basis to recover from a cult - not just family and social, but in our minds. What a long way we've all come though - so much support available now, it's just amazing.

    To have to often question one's own cognition (NOT the Scn word!) can be hard on self-confidence. Frankly, I was going along pretty well here lately, successful at a great new job, family, social, etc and didn't expect to hit any more hot areas, but I did and there you go.

    I will adopt your concept of power because it is much more sound than the one I had and I am very grateful to you for sharing this at a moment in my life when I could really take it onboard.

    Thank you. Very much. (Try not to blush too much. heh heh)

    • Like Like x 5
  24. adhocrat Member

    My apologies. I have been out since 1992, and had left the COS behind but then came anonymous and the lingo just came back. But when I got out I went through a lost year, doing little but eating and wondering WTF had just happened. When I left COS I weighed 190, the same weight I'd been all my adult life. a year later I weighed 290.
    Oops. Some therapy would have been nice, but that waited for 10 years.

    Cognitive dissonance is a subtle destroyer, it makes you want to look elsewhere for the answer. But if you can be mindful and hear it in your internal dialog then the demons can be faced and destroyed.

    And if I may add one more thing, when it is uncertain who's doing what to whom, think about the power equation. Is it Def 1 power or Def 2 power? Is someone abusing the relationship, asking for more than they give? Is there social pressure to conform? (I get that here at WWP. A few people don't like my political views. Which is one reason I don't worry too much about my hat size growing. hehe)

    You weren't? Shucks, ma'am, I love discussions about that sort of stuff.
    And, the one wonderful thing, a person who listens, has things to say.

    The non initiation of force is one of the key insights of classical liberalism ( what we call libertarian here in the States) and the 'all action is purposeful' insight comes directly from the Austrian school of economics.
  25. Gottabrain Member

    Hi Adhocrat,

    The bolded part of what you said was particularly useful to me. Thank you.

    Using the concept of power as nothing more than physical force or actual ability to influence another (and vice versa), I was able to resolve a major ongoing personal problem this week. In other words, it kept me mentally balanced and grounded so that I dealt well with a challenging situation that I have not handled well in the past.

    The reason I haven't dealt well with it before was because I would automatically take a mystical view when the situation arose rather than a practical one. This time I didn't. I made a point of consciously NOT taking the mystical thinking route. That's another way of viewing power, as you know - and not a good way.

    So you have influenced me and I have achieved my objective. The bonus is, I achieved quite a bit more than that objective because that particular cognitive pattern has been changed and there's been a bit of a chain reaction. Its still going on.

    It turned out to be a much bigger deal than I expected. My world is very, very quiet now. Peaceful, serene.

    Just thought you'd like to know how it worked out. I'm sure we'll talk again some time.

    • Like Like x 2
  26. adhocrat Member

    Well done, my friend, well done indeed.
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Anonymous Member

    A "statement" is any sentence which can be true or false. It can be something ordinary like "Plants grow." or something philosophical like "I have a supernatural soul".

    If by "cognition" you mean statements that you believe are true, then I would say that questioning one's own beliefs is the very source of self-confidence. It's the heart of critical thinking.

    The most important question to ask of any belief is "How do I know that's true?"
    If you can answer that question to your own satisfaction, then you can have a lot of confidence in that belief.

    Whenever I wonder about some statement, or whenever someone tells me something, the first thing I want to know is how do I (or they) know it? What is the evidence? The degree of confidence I will have in the truth of the statement depends entirely on how good the evidence is for it.
  28. xenubarb Member

    I'd rather be that guy who wins multiple lottery millions than the guy who gets to be present at a string of terrorist attacks. Just sayin, in case the PTB give a rat's ass.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Gottabrain Member

    Going on a visit to the US soon and would LOOOOVE to protest with some LA Anons or ChiAnons.... ;)
    • Like Like x 2
  30. Anonymous Member

    You might want to post that in the protest organizing threads where more local people might see it?
  31. Darth Xander Member

    Like they always say
    What's good for the prince
    Is always good for Anons
    Oh Sheila!

    Come on home Ms. Huber. We'll have a sign waiting for you.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. adhocrat Member

    Or maybe some NorCal people invading SoCal? Let us know when...
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Zak McKracken Member

    Or maybe even a few SoSocal fags invading SoCal.

    Faggotry knows no borders.
  34. add1X Member

    LOL! Made me remember - Karen Black got in a bit of trouble for topless sunbathing in the FH pool.
    And, Karen wasn't the only one to be taken by Ivan's charisma. You are right, his charisma and SO dress blues created a presence.
  35. Gottabrain Member

    That was SOOOO much FUN!!! Great seeing you all. Hugs all around. :)

    Can't get enough of yelling at or about those guys. Lol. My addiction.

    Chicago (and Indiana) have just been HEAVENLY. Having the best time here. Thank you!!
    • Like Like x 3
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  36. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Pix or it didn't happen -- to all the last few posts.
  37. Darth Xander Member

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