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Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

Discussion in 'Media' started by Sponge, Aug 25, 2010.

  1. Sponge Member

    Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    I don't know whether these people are CCHR or merely as divisive and moonbat as CCHR (who's NZ director is described as being a "founding member")

    Suicide Group Launched In Auckland | Voxy.co.nz

    Anyway, the article just popped yesterday up so if NZ/Australia Anons wants to do some further probing on that then feel free.
    One thing to do, apart from raaaage, is to look up what this claimed 2004 article was (published in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry) which makes a blanket summary that psychiatry causes more risk of suicide. So, a source for that would be handy.

    Oh, and just a reminder:
    2010: CCHR was denied its application for registered charitable status in NZ:
    Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - Scientology CCHR Denied charitable status in New Zealand
    One of the deciding factors which the NZCC uses is to weigh up the benefit/harm of an organisation who's aim is to essentially remove psychiatry for the face of the earth. result: CCHR=more harm than good therefore no charitable use.
    Just thought I'd rub that one in whilst I'm on the topic.

    Edit: Other related news links added today....
    New Zealand Herald:
    Little support for families hit by suicide - mother - National - NZ Herald News
    The CCHR PR doesn't make it to the real news article but does mention the CCHR being in attendance.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    whoot?

    suicide [STRIKE]prevention[/STRIKE] generation group

    so i fix it
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Thanks Sponge.

    I have access to the journal - hunting down potential refs from 2004 ... ...

    Jan Issue 1-2
    Suicide after discharge from psychiatric inpatient care: a case-control study in Hong Kong (pages 65–72)
    Mar Issue 3 None
    April 2004 Volume 38, Issue 4 None
    May 2004 Volume 38, Issue 5 None

    June 2004 Volume 38, Issue 6
    The practical art of suicide assessment: a guide for mental health professionals and substance abuse counselors (pages 480–481) Chris Watson Article first published online: 11 JUN 2004 | DOI: 10.1111/j.1440-1614.2004.01392.x

    July 2004 Volume 38, Issue 7 None
    Aug 2004 None
    Sep 2004 None

    October 2004 Volume 38, Issue 10 None
    Australian and New Zealand clinical practice guidelines for the management of adult deliberate self-harm (pages 868–884) Article first published online: 18 NOV 2004 | DOI: 10.1111/j.1440-1614.2004.01399.x

    Do nations’ mental health policies, programs and legislation influence their suicide rates? An ecological study of 100 countries (pages 933–939) Philip Burgess, Jane Pirkis, Damien Jolley, Harvey Whiteford and Shekhar Saxena Article first published online: 18 NOV 2004 | DOI: 10.1111/j.1440-1614.2004.01484.x

    ----

    I'm betting on that last one - I'll go through the articles tomorrow - it's almost 3am here z-)

    Interested folk with access might want to follow up, or alternatively hunt down the abstracts in Google Scholar.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    FWIW: There has been much debate (proper debate, involving proper people) in NZ over the past month or so around the extent to which suicide should be discussed in the media etc. The 'emerging expert thinking' seems to be that publicising the number of suicides, without particular details, might reduce the perceived 'special-ness' of doing oneself in (especially for youth) - in the sense that if it's commonly known (for example) that suicide kills more people than car crashes, teens might not see it as so glamorous. (grossly over-simplified)

    Anyway, I have no doubt that the recent debate has triggered the creation of this group - the objective must be to stop CCHR from infiltrating it and preventing people getting the care that might save them.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Re Herald article in Sponge's post:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/704999

    So the connection goes back a couple of years. Fuck - I hate the thought of going up against a mother of a teen suicide.
  6. Sponge Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    ^Thanks.

    Informa Healthcare - Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry - 38(11-12):933 - Summary

    Do nations' mental health policies, programs and legislation influence their suicide rates? An ecological study of 100 countries

    2004, Vol. 38, No. 11-12 , Pages 933-939
    Philip Burgess1, Jane Pirkis2, Damien Jolley3, Harvey Whiteford1 and Shekhar Saxena4

    1The University of Queensland, Queensland Centre for Mental Health Research, The Park–Centre for Mental Health, Wacol, Queensland, 4076, Australia

    2Program Evaluation Unit, School of Population Health, The University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia

    3School of Health Sciences, Deakin University, Melbourne, Australia

    4Mental Health: Evidence and Research, World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland


    Objective: To test the hypothesis that the presence of national mental health policies, programs and legislation would be associated with lower national suicide rates.

    Method: Suicide rates from 100 countries were regressed on mental health policy, program and legislation indicators.

    Results: Contrary to the hypothesized relationship, the study found that after introducing mental health initiatives (with the exception of substance abuse policies), countries' suicide rates rose.

    Conclusion: It is of concern that most mental health initiatives are associated with an increase in suicide rates. However, there may be acceptable reasons for the observed findings, for example initiatives may have been introduced in areas of increasing need, or a case-finding effect may be operating. Data limitations must also be considered.

    (my highlight in purple)
  7. BigBeard Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    I'm wondering if the suicide rates actually rose, or is it a case of better investigation (e.g., what in the past might have been called an accident being found to be a suicide) and tracking methods bringing the numbers up?

    BigBeard
  8. Sponge Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    There are many questions which can only be answered in the complete article. Such as, what in their criteria consitutes a "mental health initiative"?
  9. xenubarb Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Vulnerable people have always been a Scientology target. Grief stricken survivors of a suicide are like candy to them.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Sponge Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Concerns raised over group's scientology link | Stuff.co.nz

    MP is aware.
    Talking of coroner's inquests, there is a coroner in Australia unable to complete his conclusions due to the fact that scientology has moved files abroad out of AU juristiction regarding one of their members who committed suicide shortly after large "donation" and prior to him going to their USA mecca. The victim: the late Edward McBride. She should google that, and maybe speak to Edward's brother, and Australian senator Xenophon.

    She needs to stop parroting the CCHR's selective points from one paper as she ignores the huge caveat pointed out in its conclusion.
    You should be working with mental health bodies rather than dismissing them not only as useless but also as a causation which is both irresponsible and an insult to the victims who could have benefitted from more help. Would Edward McBride be alive today if he could have seen beyond the stigma which groups like scientology's CCHR create against mental health support? As a scientologist, he didn't stand a chance.


    Yes, and that's putting it mildly. How about "Global Obliteration" and "Gobal Annihilation" of psychiatry, which are the precise terms they use to rally their flock in their public event (available on DVD and YouTube if you want to see it).

    You'd better start "caring" about your co-sponsor's "religious views".
    If you are reading this, Bradshaw, sorry about your son and all, but you are an ignorant fool who stands to put other potential victims at risk. Can't you see you're being used and that the memory of your dead son is being used in such a divisive way? The CCHR loves people like you to attempt to legitimize themselves and push their moonbat agenda that all psychiatry is somehow eeevil.
    Your own NZ charities commission uses a balance of good versus harm for organisations that apply for registered charity status and the CCHR LOST its application on that public benefit principle only this year.
    Raising awareness of the much needed support for tackling the problems associated with suicide is a noble principle but not this way.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    That mental health bodies cause a rise in suicides is debatable, that secretive fundamentalist "religions" cause mass suicides is absolutely true.
    (Jonestown, Aum shinrikyo, Scientology, Al Qaeda).
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    When has Scientology caused a mass suicide?
  13. anonhuff Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    can brain cells commit suicide? if so, daily for 50+ years
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    I wonder if the victim of child sexual abuse that Jan Eastgate helped coverup and keep the perpetrator from justice felt less suicidal or more after Jan Eastgate, the horrible rotten cunt of a woman, "helped" her out in her time of need.
  15. Sponge Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    That would be Jan Eastgate, President of CCHR International, an anti-psychiatry front group for the so called "church" of scientology which practices its own form of "counselling" aimed at "finding your ruin".

    stresstestcuecards640.jpg
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Do nations’ mental health policies, programs and legislation influence their suicide rates? An ecological study of 100 countries
    Philip Burgess, Jane Pirkis, Damien Jolley, Harvey Whiteford, Shekhar Saxena

    MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

    CCHR naive? More like deliberate omission of context I'd say.
  17. Sponge Member

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    ^Nice one. I thought there'd be more to it.
  18. Hombre Moderator Skandinaviska

    Re: Sick: CCHR cosies up to so-called "suicide prevention group" (NZ)

    Good thing we own the internet. Google "Scientology Casper".
  19. Jeff Jacobsen Member

  20. Hey Maria Bradshaw here, one of the founders of CASPER. Thought you might like to address your concerns directly with me. I can assure you that neither I nor the other CASPER founder are members of, or have any interest in, Scientology. Our interest is in contributing to suicide prevention by promoting fully informed decision making and encouraging informed debate on the issue. Happy to discuss any of the research posted on our site, our activities and affiliations. We have nothing to hide and are more than happy to engage with anyone who is interested in analysis of research and practice around suicide prevention.

    Maria
  21. Anonymous Member

    I’m going to assume this isn’t a troll.

    I have to call bullshit on you Maria, especially the portions I have marked as red above. You have a section on your website titled “World Health Organisation Says Depression Doesn't Cause Suicide”. Your interpretation of the study is as follows (emphasis added):

    Research published by the WHO in 2009 which gathered data from 108,664 respondents from 21 countries participating in the WHO World Mental Health Surveys found that depression is not linked with planning, attempting or completing suicide. It further found that those making unplanned suicide attempts (frequently the case with youth), stressful life events were more likely than mental disorders to be the key causal factors.
    The authors state "A diagnosis of major depression is much less useful in predicting which people with suicide ideation go on to make suicide plans or attempts, and it is nonsignificantly associated with unplanned attempts in both developed and developing countries."
    Despite being funded by a number of pharmaceutical companies, the study repeatedly acknowledges that there is to date no evidence of a causal relationship between mental disorders and suicide.
    I wonder if this will be enough for them to stop prescribing drugs known to double the risk of suicide as a suicide prevention measure.

    Compare CASPER’s interpretation with what the authors actually wrote (again with emphasis added):
    Claiming to be in the business of “informed debate” is completely contradicted by the whole misrepresentation above. Simply reading the WHO paper is sufficient to see CASPER’s gross misrepresentation of. So which category do you fall into Maria?:

    A) You were well aware of the gross misrepresentation explained above, and you understood the strength of the WHO evidence showing the link between mental disorders and suicide. But you don’t care for factual accuracy or for suicide prevention, and quote mining the WHO article was in line with your anti-psychiatry goals.

    B) You were completely unaware of the gross misrepresentation, and are generally being exploited as a ‘sob story’ to bolster an anti-psychiatry stance.

    Are you in A or B Maria? Did the CCHR make you feel all nice and fuzzy while they exploited you and the memory of Toran to spout their shit on psychiatry?

    The WHO study is pretty concrete, and clearly spells out strong evidence of a link between diagnosed mental disorders and suicide. I’ll repeat that. The WHO study lays out evidence clearly showing a link between mental disorders and suicide. It’s quite simple. If you really were in the business on suicide prevention you would be grossly misrepresenting a study like this in favour of talking points provided by a cult front group. To have experienced the tragedy of suicide and to then have allowed yourself to be co-opted into popularising misleading advice and CCHR bullshit that may lead to others suffering the same fate is sick beyond belief.

    I don’t blame you Maria. The Scientology cult have used the pain and grief of so many people in ways just like this. I just hope you wake up before your actions help contribute to another family suffering the same fate as you. Assuming such hasn’t already happened.
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Anonymous Member

    Our concerns are clear. The Scientology front group CCHR will use CASPER for its own PR if you let them. Or even if you don't. Some organizations concerned about pharmaceutical psychiatry put bold disclaimers on their websites stating there is no connection between them and Scientology/CCHR/Youth For Human Rights/Narconon...well, the list goes on. There are many Scientology front groups seeking legitimacy by association.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Um...

    I have not read the full study yet, but I have a feeling that it may not matter due to particular language:

    Bradshaw: "...we just want people to have access to groups that provide counselling services."

    The report being discussed: "Contrary to expectations, this study found that the adoption of mental health policies,mental health legislation and therapeutic drugs policies were associated with an increase in the countries’ suicide rates, even when income status and time were taken into account."

    So ... the study being used by CASPER indicates that it looked at mental health policies and legislation AS WELL AS medication issues.
  24. Anonymous Member

    FTFY
    Here is the Study in question:
    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.1000123

    Your quote appears nowhere in the study. Lying sack of shit much?
  25. DeathHamster Member

    From their site:

    "Community Action on Suicide Prevention & Research Trust is a registered charity."

    Not under that name, they're not. No such company exists.

    NZ Companies Office:
    https://www.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies
    • Like Like x 2

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