so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Spangly, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. mrfyde Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Because I have been critical of you either with my screen name or anonymously in this thread. I would like for you to address the bold part of this post and anything else I might have addressed ITT that you disagree with.

    I take issue that you say that addressing Hubbard's work is for another day. You are more than welcome to come here and join in our "mission" as we have planned it if you like. But to come in late and start changing the game plan is a little bold if you were to ask me.

    This is one of the main problems I have with Scientology the way that Hubbard laid out it out. The "Just move in and take over"(HCO policy) method like what is encouraged when targeting W.I.S.E. businesses. Scientology asks for a commitment with out giving you all of the information a person would need to completely honor it. When you say things that imply that we will settle things like, the very essence of Scientology, later it leads many of us to consider this to only be a PA request.

    Marty will not tell people what parts of Scientology he does and doesn't promote, for example he won't answer if he believes that Christianity is an implant from R-6. I personally believe that is an important question because he quotes so many Islamic and Christian leaders and ideas on his blog and tells anons that Christianity is a "workable technology". However on his blog he also discusses how he studied the true LRH tech on the Freewinds, and neglects to mention that he tried many times to "KSW" Christianity out of people as IG of the RTC at FLAG years later. KSW requires having and using only the "correct technology" etc... This was standard in the CoS under Hubbard and remains that way under DM today.

    It is these types of omissions that keep many of us in limbo about supporting Marty. I have no issue if Scientologists want to avoid Christianity but the lie of saying it is compatible with it to gain new members is a major issue for many people. Because it is not compatible with any faith that believes you go to Heaven when you die. Lies like these are not only encouraged in Scientology, they are drilled. So when you come to us saying, we can settle the details later, you should not be surprised that you meet resistance.

    Tommy Davis and other spokesmen have had trouble defining Scientology's beliefs and their goal, can you?

    Edit: you say you would like to focus on the human rights abuses, but you also promote the 31 points of a man who admits he has taken part in them. Please understand that the difference between the abuse that is built into the tech, and the effects of the abuse, such as staying in bad conditions.
  2. anonbrit Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Shit, well that didn't go too well.

    I was trying to lure Panther in to stay on the board. I thought if I angered him enough about LRH he would stay to defend and we could grill him more.

    So I threw the bait out and my damn computer packed up for bloody hours. It looks like Relyt (Damn guy stop getting so tetchy) and MrFyde got hooked instead.

    Also looks like there was no need for the bait either as he still stayed around anyway.

  3. YAHRLY Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...


    its not scientology thats bad its just the COB!
  4. Disinfected Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Kinda my thought. Guy knows how to use and can access WWP IRC channel but can't post his own crap? Yeah, right.

    He is right in that Anon does not really know how to reach Scientologists but that is OK. I am not sure that Anon is interested in learning that "tech".

    Anon's antics have other effects; they broke the Church's hold on media and they highlight gross "outpoints" like disconnection and the RPF to the public. And they prevent at least some new recruits.

    Scientologists already know about disconnection and the RPF and have it all justified in their minds. So telling them makes little impact. Talking about OT levels just scares them off.

    Anon can and has created an atmosphere in which those that can communicate with Scientologists and are willing to do so can do their work.
  5. Antagone Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Just sayin' but it should be kept in mind that different tactics work in different places and for different people. The cult hasn't a big foothold in Ulster yet so I work on the angle of making people aware of just how bad it is and to hell with the Scilons themselves. Telling the Xenu story's always a good way to get laughs.

    Now if I was standing in Clearwater or LA or East Grinstead I might do things differently which is why I wouldn't begin to try to tell the Anons there how to run their own shows.

    Diversity is one of the greatest strengths of Anonymous and I don't really think there's a right way or wrong way of doing things, just so long as we're all doing something.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Changing the game plan? Panther is just confirming what many OG, Exes and Anons have been saying since the dawn of Chanology. Also, every Anon has their own reasons for participating - the only common game plan is ending the Church in it's current form.

    Plus there's not really much to be gained from picking apart Panther's personal interpretation of Hubbard's writings - how about YOUR personal beliefs, mrfyde? Do you believe in past lives? Do you believe you are some kind of immortal spirit than can exist independantly from your body? Do you believe that physical reality is a shared hallucination which exists through our consensual agreement? Are any of these questions even remotely relevant to our shared objective of ending the Church of Scientology in it's current form?
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    if mrfyde were our glouorious leadarr, yeh, I think his personal beliefs might be relevant. If he were asking us to follow him in his great crusade.

    But, he's not.

    Difference is: Marty *is* attempting to lead, and gather an army of his own. That puts him on a different pedestal in a different spotlight.

    You are and failure. Go blow yourself up with H-Bombs in a volcano, plz.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    fixt for you douchenozzle
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Scientology "scripture". Personally I think it does more harm than good as an ideology, at best it's a waste of time and money spent auditing LRH's fucked up psychotic "case"

    But when a scilon appears on WWP saying "'sup gaize, I flyered St Hill carpark with some dox that are stopping IAS members giving their money to Little Davey, let's talk about bringing down the Church's management", I don't see how trolling them off the forum is a good strategy?
  10. COB Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Scientology is NOT a subject.
    Scientology is NOT a technology.
    Scientology is NOT a body of work.
    Scientology is NOT a key to happiness.
    Scientology cannot make you any better than anyone else.
    Scientology is about Body Thetans, Body Thetan Clusters (referred to in HCOBs as "CLs").
    Scientology is NOT an honest cult.
    If Scientology has this "workable" garbage they proclaim, then why did Hubbard spend years trying to push INDIVIDUALS up through the wall of fire and not society as a whole? Answer -- NO ONE BELIEVES IN ALIENS.
  11. i'mglib Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther, just a couple of points.

    Trust me, what you're saying isn't new at all.

    We have heard this MANY times before. Even before the protests started, people would say that the message boards were too harsh and mocking and that people who had one toe out of the cult we see it and run back inside out of fear of the evil SP/critics.

    To this I say, "Too bad."

    Seriously, getting someone else out of the cult is like pushing a chain. Maybe you could compare it to an alcoholic finally deciding it's time to stop drinking. No one can do it for you, and often, the more you try to "help" the person the more it backfires because they see the person helping as part of the problem and try to blame them.

    I'm not saying you don't have a point at all, because of course you do. I had copies of Geir Isene's doubt formula, and copies of both of the KR's written by the OT8s and no one is going to take them from me, even though I tried (very nicely, I might add) at the last global. In fact, I did give a copy of GI's doubt formula to one handler about a month ago (I can't believe he took it) and then asked him about a few weeks later what he thought, and he said, "Meh. But Scientology works and it helps me and my family."

    It kind of makes me angry, and I think, Well go ahead then, and keep drinking that Koolaid. They are already living in a Truman Show put on by the church, so the protesters aren't going to try to mock up some competing Truman show to lure them out. This is reality out here.

    Two years ago the idea of getting the hardcore church members out wasn't even a consideration anyway. Now that the rawmeat is fully inoculated it seems like all that's left. But we can either storm the castle, or just keep up the blockaid, which seems to be working very nicely, I might add.

    There's a lot more to this than trying to "get through" to the people inside.

    And believe me, seeing the smoke spewing lolcano being dragged down L Ron Hubbard Way may not seem like it achieves much to people who are in, but not everything is for their benefit, because at the end of the day they are just going to have to wake themselves up one day.

    In the meantime, I think it was Pooks who said that the last thing that an ex Scientologist gets back is his or her sense of humor, so, yeah, they probably don't see the humor in it. It does get attention, though, looks great on Youtube, and just generally keeps the juices flowing.
  12. Optimisticate Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    If you're on the inside, you have your own job to do and it is much different than the job anons have chosen to take on. Anons cannot do what a scientologist does. Thanks be to that.

    You HAVE to do your job, you can see what is happening and you need to start doing your job faster and better if YOU expect it to have any effect. If you help others on the way, you're better for it then.

    However, asking anons to stoop to the level of scientologists? No thanks, I for one will pass on that one.
  13. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Well - I try and be brief. First of all I’m not trying to convert you to scientology! I’m only saying that the day when ANY group, no matter how well intentioned, starts dictating what is and isn’t an acceptable faith or set of beliefs is the day when freedom dies. I’m not exactly a fan of National Socialism but I would fight to my dying day for the right of the far-right BNP in my country to be able to have their say. There’s a big argument going on right now in the UK about this because the BNP leader is due to appear on a TV debate on the same panel as the status quo politicians on Thursday. Those who want the BNP banned are playing right into their hands.

    BTW in my 30 years both as staff (at senior level) and public I have never had it drilled into me that Christianity was either bad, or that one had to "KSW" christianity out of others. This is completely new to me.

    Have you read any of the Vedic scriptures? Some of that stuff makes Hubbard’s space opera look like Enid Blyton. For that matter just open the Old Testament at random and see what’s written there. When I just did that there was a passage saying that if my wife slept with my brother she should be murdered. I wouldn’t endorse that policy, but it also wouldn’t stop me seeing the good stuff in Christianity. Similarly there may well be some garbage in some of LRH writings, but there is plenty in the SUBJECT of Scientology that I find useful, incisive and thought-provoking. You can pick out stuff all day long from any religion or belief and hold it up to ridicule, but in my view that's not valuable.

    If you think Scientology the subject is destructive, fine, that’s your right. And you can try and convince others of your view too, that’s also fine. But I don’t expect you will win the argument if you attack the subject, Hubbard or the writings. I just don’t buy the argument that the man wasn’t perfect; therefore all his work must be rubbish. If you took that line you sure wouldn’t listen to any Mozart! Man, he was one wild dude! Coleridge was out of his skull when he wrote the rhyme of the ancient mariner. Does that his work invalid? Hubbard never claimed to be perfect or infallible. Disconnection as a policy he recognised was a mistake and he cancelled it. (It was DM who re-introduced it in a perverted way to harm and divide).

    This is why I tried in my earlier post to distinguish between the organisation that is the C of S and the subject of Scientology. They are not one and the same. One does NOT equal the other. If people just studied books and audited in peace and quiet Anonymous wouldn’t have any problem with it – correct? (What is your view of the Freezone?) Isn’t it ACTIONS of individuals that are the real problem?

    I guess this is one of those “we’ll agree to disagree” situations. I say again, there is plenty to approve of in what you do, and all power to you. I am coming from a different place, and I don’t expect you to see it my way either. But I am serious too. My recent exploits could very easily result in considerable OSA attention – I know they read these posts – harassment, disconnection from my friends and all the rest. But it’s important to me to educate other scientologists who just don’t know, and I will carry on. Besides, you don’t need me – you’ve got fine, high-calibre guys already like Larry Brennan, Jason Beghe etc routing for you. :)
  14. WTF Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Hi Marty !

    I still consider your amends incomplete.
  15. fitch2000 Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    By "attack the subject[scientology], Hubbard or the writings" do you mean tell the truth about them?

    To tell the truth about something = attack ??

    are you calling us meanies?

    Also, when you sat at your computer watching the stats for that site rocket up the chart, did you hear a whoooosh sound? lol

  16. YAHRLY Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    FYI Panther scientology qand all those who believe it are niggerfaggots
  17. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    I agree with that. Someone like Panther does have some value as a source of current "inside info" and that's always welcome (at least by me). There are plenty of non-destructive ways of amusing oneself. (This was also my objection to letting "Zalgo" deface the whole site rather than confining it to the dome.)

    Lurk more. ;-)

    If the "tech" is perfect, and the "tech" contradicts Christianity, and you have to "KSW"... what is the logical conclusion?

    If the "tech" isn't perfect, then why so much hostility on Hubbard's part toward anyone seeking to modify it? He said anybody else who tries to do what he did was a squirrel, didn't he? So who the fuck was he to declare that?

    See above. He may not have ever explicitly made the claim to be infallible, but that is the conclusion one must draw from what he did say. He left no method of modifying his "tech". Why not?

    You're basically correct, but the problem is that following the "tech" as LRH wrote it leads to the abuses, because the "tech" is inherently abusive of people's rights in some places. If you want to cull out some pieces which aren't, then sure, that's fine (with me at least). Just leave out the crazy idea that Hubbard was some exalted wonderfulness above and beyond mere mortal "homo sapiens" and allow people to challenge things, and there should be no problem.

    Thank you.

    Could you answer my question about the stats on Marty's site you say you checked, though? I'm still curious about that. Specifically, what stats? And how did you check them?

    My guess is no, although see above. ;-)
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther, can you share any useful info about how Anonymous is typically perceived amongst scientologists?

    We know a bit about the special briefings, where scilons are told that Anons are mostly uninformed people being paid to protest by some kind of evil psych conspiracy and that our actions are supposedly informed by Hubbard's phony "Brainwashing Manual"... but to what extent does the typical scientologist buy into this kind of propoganda?

    For that matter, is it even possible to fully understand the nature of Anonymous from within the context of Scientology? I mean it's not exactly a clearly defined's "members" can be anyone and everyone..there are many opposing opinions and attitudes within an "entity" it exists mainly in the abstract realm of information made possible by contempory digital culture which was never a part of LRH's in scilon terminology I guess it must appear to be a writhing fuzzy tentacled kind of thing that's sort of smeared across the first four dynamics? (five if you include cats, eight if you include Herro).

    Does an average scilon even attempt to analyze things in this fashion, or are their critical faculties suppressed to the extent that Exes and the OG would have us believe?

    We read about how scientologists generally dont discuss the tech in an analytical fashion for fear of ethics handlings etc. But do these kind of penalties for engaging in "verbal tech" and "natter" apply mainly to staff rather than public? To what extent would you say this suppresion of freedom of thought is enforced by the Church's current management?
  19. afternon Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    IMHO ex-$cientologists have different perspectives than many anons, in fact, many anons have very different perspectives- the more angles that the cult can be attacked- the faster it will fall.

    I expect much of what anon does has little impact on those deep clams but does stop raw meat getting sucked into the cult in the street and does much to keep the abuses (and the secrets) by the cult high profile.

    Although I think Hubbard was a clever con man and compulsive liar, I don't have a problem with people in the freezone (one protests alongside anonymous in London)- as long as the freezone doesn't share the abuses of the main cult.

    I do believe, though, that it's mainly ex-$cientologists who know the best ways to get through to those still in the cult, although I expect these to be less lulzy than most anons want!
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Trolling the fuck out of Little Davey is maybe somewhat lulzy?

    In the spirit of "ARC" I'm going to go out on a limb here and "postulate" a "stable datum" which I think every single Anon, OG, Ex, Dissaffected-Scilon-In-Good-Standing, "Impartial" Journalist, Grandparent-of-Suri-Cruise, Hacker-on-Steroids and hopefully even Herro can agree on:

  21. YAHRLY Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Ex-scifags are usually brain damaged
    and were most likely morons before they got suckered into the cult
  22. mrfyde Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...


    First thank you for replying to my post. It is rare and I can not remember a time when any Scientologist has responded in this detail. In a brief comm cycle with Marty I told him that WWP is missing the Scientologist point of view and that it is not a good thing.

    In my post I suggested that freedom also dies when you allow another person do define what it is. In this case Hubbard. You can be free at any time you like but Hubbard makes it a series of hoops one has to jump thru and to work toward.
    Recently a young man from Dallas TX had been fired from staff for not dropping his original religious beliefs. He was a "Jew for Jesus" and he told me that the Dallas Org would point to him as an example of how other faiths are compatible with theirs. As for Rathbun and KSW here is a link to another OT8 and his experience with Marty on the subject of his developing belief in Christianity as part of his OT8 process.
    Michael Pattinson's Experiences with Scientology - Part 11

    Well you are trying to defend one topic by pointing out the flaws of another. A Christian might tell you that you can not remove a spec of sawdust out of your brothers eye if you have a plank (or larger piece) in your own. But I am not here to promote Christianity, I think I have read a passage or two of the Vedic scriptures that seemed on par with some of Hubbards writings, but that is not the point the the point is that it is not the belief it is the practices, If Jews or Christians have a memeber cornered in a room and tell them that they must give up their beliefs (like it is described that Marty did in the above link) it is wrong. If they go to non CoS bookstores and pressure the owner to stop selling books other people might enjoy because it will pollute others with those beliefs it is also wrong (you can read about Marty's hand in that as well in that link).
    You have me all wrong. I have also told Marty in our breif comm cyle that if wishes to be a Scientologist he has my blessing, if he chooses to be an honest one. An honest one And I do not get to choose what you believe and what you don't. I don't care if you believe your Thetan comes back, or can travel in time, or move object with out your meat body, if you believe that I think you will be disappointed. I am concerned about the journey you took to start believing those things.
    KSW is all about Hubbard being infallible.
    Yes see above.
    We don't need to have the same point of view. I asked you to discuss yours, but I see a lot of dodging the issues. and "generalities" and trying to deflect the issues onto other topics. I believe it is because you are conditioned not to speak about the things critical to Scientology and that you don't allow yourself to examine your own thoughts. I am more than willing to change my point of view and that is why I invited you to address the issues I have made. I am not infallible either. Some people think I am shouting or angry, I'm not I am maybe frustrated that it has taken so long to adress these issues maybe.
    OSA's job is to keep people living in fear and I am glad that you don't want that, I don't know about family ties you could be risking and if you place fliers on windscreens in the car park that is great, I am glad that 300 see that defiance is possible.
  23. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Good questions. I wish I could answer them! Critics are nothing new. 30 odd years ago when I first got in friends were telling me it was a dangerous cult. News articles (critical ones) are always presented as being "entheta" which means against life/truth, and based on ignorance. One quickly develops a "bunker mentality" as a sort of self-protection. Jason Beghe describes it fairly welll in his video when he says you do it to yourself. In other words you protect yourself from criticism by convincing yourself that scientollogy is the only valid truth, so it becomes easy to dismiss all critics. Anonymous are dismissed as cyber-terrorists and criminals, and in all honesty anybody that's done a chunk of the bridge wouldn't be too fazed by demos, or may even see them as a challenge. It's not that scientologists can't analyze; just that on this they have a blind spot. Critics, one is taught, must have crimes. I would say that scientologists generally are actually above average in their ability to sift good data from bad - look at the employment profiles, they tend to have good jobs or businesses and above average incomes. A lot are in IT. It's a mistake to blanket categorize them as brain dead clones. In fact Sun Tzu's Art of War is recommended reading for Anons who take their role seriously- you should know your enemy. Again, I don't lessen the effect of demos and their effect on raw meat, but to reach the OTs a completely different approach is needed IMHO.

    I was never told anything specific about Anon, to me it was just another group of "antis" at the time. But I can see a different picture now. Hope this helps somewhat.

    To those who keep asking about how I know site stats - it's no mystery; first of all scientology-cult has a figure at the bottom of each page saying how many people are on the site at that moment, second sites like offer this info for free. Even for a technophobe like me this aint exactly rocket science.
  24. Jello Biafra Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    I am confused by all of this. Why is everybody so worked up over a simple suggestion? Instead of jumping all over each other trying do determine the motives of this panther guy, why not just examine the merits of what he's saying. I may not agree with his beliefs or everything he says about Scientology, but I think he makes a lot of good points.

    I think the sane people in Chanology have known for quite some time that if you really are serious about getting people inside Scientology to leave, the tactics of calling it a cult and talking about how evil it is and screaming OTIII really mitigate against your goals. Scientology tells its parishoners that critics are bad people that are motivated by hate and who are out to harm scientologists. So really trying to upset them and trashing their beliefs may be funny, but all you're doing is playing into the hands of the church- because the leaders can say "see- we told you they're angry hateful bigots." I think what panther is saying, and I'm inclined to agree, is that you only reinforce the stereotype that scientology has of its critics. It isn't that you're actually the hateful bigots that scientology talks about- it's that you might look like those people to active scientologists.

    Really what I'm arguing for here is pragmatism. If you only want to troll scientologists and piss them off for amusement that's totally fine. But if your goal is to get scientologists to leave or to undermine their trust in david miscavige, mocking and ridiculing scientology and standing outside their orgs calling them members of a dangerous criminal cult is really the last thing you want to do. Panther is right, if you really want to instil doubt, you have to talk to them on their level and you don't want them thinking you hate them.

    So I see no point in all this arguing over the intentions of Panther or whether the problem is with scientology management or the beliefs of scientology. All you really need to consider is whether these suggestions are likely to work and, if so, what outcomes they are likely to produce.

    I also find it somewhat troubling to see how people are reacting simply because Panther is a scientologist or because he isn't willing to trash scientology. I see many people in this thread refusing to consider what he has to say instead preferring to lash out at him and assume he is only here to cause harm. The obvious irony in that type of thinking is that it is the same type of thinking that scientology encourages in its members because it insulates them from critical information. I dunno, just my thoughts.

    If you're talking about trying to instil doubt in current scientologists then it doesn't really matter what Hubbard intended it to be. What matters is how current scientologists see in it and how they interpret it. Again, pragmatism is key.
  25. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Believe me I know I am playing a dangerous game. But it won't be long before my friends inside will be coming to me for help, and I will be happy to be there for them. There will be many confused people needing re-orientating and having others stand over them calling them names isn't going to do much for them. (Not suggesting you would do that).
  26. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...


    I got the quote thing all wrong - the answers to your points are in my post, but in the same text as yours... I'll get there!
  27. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Wow, thank you jello! It gets pretty hostile around here!
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Indeed. To be honest it's a weird thing to think about: For years Scientologists are convinced of the reality of their past lives and the "whole track" etc., then when they reach OT8 they're told that they mocked it all do they even interpret that data?

    I mean, do OT8s discuss the metaphysical implications of that hypothesis with one another, or do they just sort of assume that reality is whatever they choose to believe and leave it at that?
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Yes, it does.

    To that end, might I suggest you visit • Index page where more Saint-Hill-specific happenings are likely to be planned.
  30. anon2487 Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...


    I find the abusiveness pretty sad. Pathetic in fact.

    When Chanology started, there was a much more tolerant vibe within the forum - ironically this was at it's greatest when the /b/tard influx was going on. One thing that's always puzzled me is that - certainly in the 1st couple of months of enturb - accounts that appeared to be OSA controlled (making illegal/provocative suggestions etc.,) also started forwarding a "brainwashed culty" 'attack line'/agenda. At the time, few people seemed to buy into it, and when a cartoon posted by one of these accounts appeared in the Clearwater (attempted) injunction, it stood in stark contrast to the real attitudes that were prevalent. However if you were to take that cartoon now, it wouldn't seem so dramatically out of place, and I think a lot of people would be like "hurrr hur hurrr, lulz."

    I don't know. It is interesting I guess, though slightly depressing too. Anyway, derail over.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Well to be fair, the cost of services and the requirements to donate money in order to demonstrate one's eligibilty to progress up the bridge are probably a contributing factor in the profile of a typical scientologist, and the ones who maybe aren't so good at sifting good data from bad end up in the Sea Org.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    what the god damn nigger faggot fuck are with these walls of text that say NOTHING
  34. mrfyde Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Yes but those freedoms are useless when someone controls the ideas that you wish to speak about and the very opinions themselves. I said it is the journey to the beliefs that is the problem not the beliefs.

    I understand that you do not want to answer for Marty, the problem is Marty does not want to answer. He blogs about how he learned correctly on the Freewinds, but then demonstrates how he handles things afterward in the link. KSW Hubbard Tech MUST BE the correct technology in Scientology and KSW dictates that you need to get rid non workable technology. (the tech that does not work would be anything that contradicts Hubbards tech.) It is a "catch 22".

    Marty blogs about nonsense, and the trivial and does not allow comments that suggest he is anything but profound. <-This depends much on the subject he has his good days and bad days. But it is clear from his postings that he believes he is in control, and he must stay in and keep control. I believe in his mind he feels he is protecting and nurturing, but treats the world like they misguided children - or like in my case I am supposedly a scary "agent of Miscavige".

    No religion should be banned. What MP should or should not have done is not the point. He was there, he was interrogated for long hours and was with a man who would not be reasonable (the wog definition) or sensible.

    I can't answer that question, there are so many different versions of the FZ. I believe that the tech is doomed to repeat itself unless it is squirreled. This is why I don't understand those Anons who believe that telling Scn's that the tech is squirreled in the CoS as if it is a bad thing. It gives people the idea that Scientology needs to become more fundamentalist in nature.

    I wrote:

    "KSW is all about Hubbard being infallible."

    But they are coming for auditing and training under the current system that you are saying is corrupt. I don't know how put it politely, your opinions are "affected" by the process. This is where arguing will get circular. Your belief is that you have free will, my belief is your will has been influenced. You will say "what is true for you is what is true "and I'll say "that is the product of what experts call 'loaded language' that is thought stopping." There is an expression that suggests that insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. What you suggest is to do things as LRH suggested and you will this time get a different result. But the idea of "what is true for you is what is true" is influenced thought gives you an easy out for any circumstance.

    Its hard in this format to go back pages to find the exact thing I was talking about in general, I did ask for a definition of the beliefs and the practices, what exactly is good hubbard tech and what is bad. You do admit lrh changed his mind from time to time. Basically if you want put Scientology out on the table from pre-clear to OT8 clear cognition (I believe that is the term) for anyone to see it, and not use any of the "technology" to effect the life of anyone but yourself I am 'fine' with you being a Scientologist. But when you talk about things such as "Scientology Zero" I do not see how that is possible.

    Closing by deciding what other people need, implies that part of you does not believe that a man can practice a religion any way he chooses. That leads us back to the journey at the top of my post.
  35. Mutante Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    What in name of OCMB is the prize on offer that could possibly inspire the retarded writing competition in this thread.
  36. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Dunno, the fucking thing is all tldr. I think it's some one saying YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG, I KNOW HOW TO KNOW, LISTEN TO ME and a bunch of self hating faggots stroking the tldr keys while furiously fapping thinking any one will actually read it.

    I also just got a PM.

    [tawana]Hey skep, ypou busy?
    [Skep] Nope what's up lover gurl
    [tawana] Horny, you wanna get it on
    [Skep] Sure, you got your lipstick cam on, i need to see the real you

    You guys probably don't want to hear any more of that.
  37. YAHRLY Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    whiskey the brownest of all the brown liquors
  38. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Thanks; that's all I was wondering.


    Lurk more. :)

    Everybody gets roasted, in this hole. If your blood pressure hasn't risen significantly yet, you haven't been paying attention!!!

    BTW, to quote something in bits and reply to each one, just insert the {quote} and {/quote} tags wherever needed, with the curly braces replaced by square ones. {quote} to begin a quoted section and... you know.
  39. mrfyde Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    You don't have to read it, the message isn't exactly for you.

    but let us know how that PM turns out.
  40. moreanonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    They weren't pals, either. Crowley saw LRon for what he was before anyone else did.

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