SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

Discussion in 'St Petersburg Times expose' started by Anonymous, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Yeah I am no fan of the cable news networks. I hardly pay attention to them.

    I just remember when the SPT did the report about her (again long ago) and him in the paper. It does beg the question though, with so many in the media mainstream, how many have gone political? It wasn't far fetched in the '70's. Who's to say they didn't do it the right way this time?
  2. Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    Maybe JS is back, and ready for Round 2 with Tommy & Co?

    We can but hope...
  3. Da Sandmastah Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Tommy Davis, [STRIKE]quit[/STRIKE] keep on failing so hard.
  4. leafs Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I can't believe this. They actually confirm most of this shit?
  5. chrisanon Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Crazy, isn't it?

    They just don't get it. Tommy Davis's statements aren't footbullets, they are headbullets.
  6. Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    It's more complicated then that. The Sea Org members inside, for the most part, are not banging at the door trying to get out. There are some that are held against their will, but it is a minority. But again that is more complicated than just physical restraint.

    I was gonna try to write out a big thing and explain it but Robert Vaughn Young did it first and probably better than I could have.

    Toward a new model of "cult control" by Robert Vaughn Young

    This is also a double explanation as it literally goes into physical abuse (i.e. what is being done at Gold base, but which I never saw in any of the lower organizations below Gold and I was in all levels below Gold) and also psychological abuse which I did endure at the lower levels. When I read this explanation that made a lot of sense to me about why I and others didn't leave earlier.
  7. Uncle Bruce Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    I think R.V. Young has hit the nail on the head. The confinement is mostly in the mind set of the individual, much like the case of abused women. I doubt that most people who are being held are really that anxious to escape, in a physical sense. If the police talked to them they would probably say they were fine and there was no problem. That is why the system is so insidious. A short time ago the people telling us about being assaulted by DM would have denied it if questioned by the police. Unless someone is willing to complain there isn't much the police can do.
  8. the_cloak Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I love this. Tommy verifies this shit goes on and then tries to justify it. Total fail there Tommy, well for you. Massive win for us and the SP Times. Why don't you get the SP Times back for this Tommy? I know! Protest them while in Nazi uniform. That worked so well for you last time!

    I think we owe a huge thank you to Nathan Baca for this. His journalism and bravery out in California for KESQ made this article from the SP Times not only possible, but the rest of the media was emboldended enough to take this and run it on their front pages of their sites. Of course we also have to thank the staff of the SP Times for their hard work and bravery on this as well.

    The cult has now been sucker punched in both it's mainland bases in the US. Clearwater area and the Cali desert. Now if the UK will reign in it's crazy libel laws, St. Hill could take a pounding from the notoriously rough British media.
  9. chrisanon Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    I am very happy to see RVY's article featured (as I guess you can tell from my sig line.)

    His insights into the deficits of Lifton's otherwise brilliant model were a huge breakthrough 9 years ago, and are now well-accepted by cult researchers.

    I encourage everyone who wants to understand what's going on in the minds of these apparently whacked-out culties to read his essay.
  10. Uncle Bruce Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    I am somewhat confused because it seems like there is more than one poster using the same screen name of anonymous. One is local and at least one isn't. I assume that you don't live in the area.
    The idea that the Clearwater Police are on the cults side is ridiculous. The majority of the police, like the majority of everyone in the area despise the cult. I won't deny that there may be a scilon mole or two in the department, but over all we have one of the best police forces in the state. I think if you ask the people who have protested here they would tell you the police have been basically fair in their enforcement of the law.
  11. Re: SpTimes part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical justice

    To quote Judge Judy "When you tell the truth you dont need a good memory." Stupid fucktards!
  12. anonhuff Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    Anyone, and everyone, can be Anonymous. Whenever you post there is a little checkmark above the text entry area that says "make post anonymously".
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    we can all post anonymously, click the 'make post anonymously' in the upper right corner of the 'reply to thread' box

    like I just did :)
  14. Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    When I was down there protesting the cops were awsome. One Cop who had been with the force sence the $cis first came to town said he had his trash gone through by the "church". He had no real love loss for them. He did want to make sure tho that all laws were Followed!!
  15. RightOn Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    Yes I thought that also. I also thought it was very CONVENIENT for him to be on the Freewinds when this story broke.
    He was asked back in May to interview and said he was too busy and then asked for 5 weeks after that. They would of agreed to a phone interview, but Davey declined. IDIOT.

    I was a tad dissaopointed in the 3rd part. Sounded more like a wrap up of all three articles, but since all the articles were SO lengthy, I think it was a necessary step to do so that the average reader would be able to process it easier.

    It did add the over boarding, which pleased me to no end.
    I am shocked over the things the cult has admitted.
    Muscial chairs, beatings, and over boarding are all huge. I hope the authorities think it is huge also.

    In the audio of Davis, he tries to switch the blame to Rathbun saying that it was Rathbun who beat the same guys that he was acusing DM of beating. (and yes Rathbun did beat people, as he admitted it)

    Then ok Tom......if all these different people were getting beatings repeatedly,then why didn't the great and almighty DM or any of the other members call the cops and have Rathbun put in jail?
    What "church" leader would allow this?
    hey guize.. beatings are ilgegal. LOL

    Instead they say that is why Rathbun was asked to leave the church?
    Huh? They witnessed beatings, and not only did they NOT call the cops, but they did not file any cop reports about the beating incidents after Rathbun blew? They had no intention of pressing charges against him for beatings?

    These articles had tons of win. I only hope that the authorities look at the musical chairs as something more than a cult horsing around, and the same with the over boarding.
    I think at the very least it shows cult behavior and major cover ups to the average person reading .Just hope it's enough.

    WE are outraged by it, but will others be as outraged??

    One MAJOR thing that also came out of this is the fact that publics, celebrities and staff get to read it about it, and one can only hope that they believe the defectors and not COS.
    But we all know that the amount of people that will believe the SP defectors, is very slim do to brianwashing. But seeds of doubt are epic too.

    At least it may stop alot more people from joining, which in itself is one of the biggest wins we could have hoped for.

    This has been a great week, and I asume/hope more will follow. I hope the staff at the SP Times does not get dragged to court, and I hope the impact from this story reaches far and wide, and puts a serious dent in COS's finances.

    And don't get me wrong, I am not trying to rain on anybody's parade, this is FREAKIN' HUGE.
    I was just trying to see it by the average person's perspective.
    I couldn't be happier about these articles and it made me cry when they first came out.
  16. OTBT Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

  17. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    That, and as a second-best option, perhaps a sympathetic merchant/employee might be willing to relate their observations and maybe ID perps from a gallery of known Scilon operatives. This is assuming y'all can locate a merchant/employee of a store that's been "robbed" by a Scilon, which hopefully can be done.

    Just thinkin' out loud.

    Larry, have mercy on my happy pants. They can't take much more of this!!

    Tried and true Hubbard bon-voyage tech.

    I could not agree with you more.
  18. xenubarb Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    AHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Yeah, right. A reworked pile of garbage from a third rate science fiction writer is comparable to the discovery of 2000 year old scrolls!!

    Those Scientologists really have an overblown sense of their own importance, don't they!
  19. CantPickaName Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Reporter..And what about the reports of people being punched by David Miscavige?

    Davis..They slammed their faces into poor Mr Miscaviges fist.He is so innocent and caring that he endured this over and over suffering from bloody knuckles
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3 : Ecclesiastical Justice

    Hummm, maybe this is why...
  21. auchraw Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    1 'Ecclesiastical' is a great choice of word: if these practices are typical of their alleged religion, how has it been treated as tax-exempt all these years? A great choice of word, and their choice of word, so nowhere to hide.

    2 If as said the SP Times has earned megabucks selling these articles, how much do we think their sources have been paid for their information?

    3 TD is too bad to be true. Either he has flipped or he is selling out, knowing that DM is far far away.

    4 If DM sails off into the sunset, what happens then? Does anyone in the US have a contingency plan? The end-game might be closer than we know. Can the rest of the world rely on American justice? law enforcement? The IRS? What happens when a wealthy [strike]cult[/strike] criminal organisation goes spectacularly leaderless? WHO TAKES OVER?
  22. Mutante Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    You can count on my vote.
  23. YAHRLY Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    both Rinder and Rathbun went to great lengths to NOT criticize the "tech" and blame only DM for scifagottry's faggotry
    this needs to be watched carefully, let us not be PAed into some Coup attempt
    they are both worthless shits
  24. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Why wouldn't they be? How they treat their own members is (ironically, perhaps) the least relevant thing. Tax exemption means you're serving some charitable-type purpose, i.e. that the organization does some bullshit for the benefit of the community; not just their own members.

    I'd assume a big fat zero. It's not the norm for journalists to pay sources and I see no reason to believe otherwise here. They really didn't reveal much that hadn't been said before. The novelty was mainly in the high profiles of the people now speaking out. Also, Mike Rinder's motivations was explicitly explained - he wasn't going to talk to the press - until the cult started pre-emptive intimidation tactics against him.

    He's not really worse than a lot of other Scieno PR folks - he's just the highest-ranking one. Last year their rep in Sweden started ranting to a journalist, on record, that Anonymous was connected to arms dealers and narcotics smugglers, that 'dark forces are in motion', and that 'psychiatry is responsible for it all'. Which makes a lot of TD's drivel sound quite sane by comparison.

    Not bloody likely to happen. To begin with he's not wanted for or being investigated for any crimes at all. Second, he boasted far-and-wide about how he created a structure to indemnify Scientology and keep the cult running no matter what. He probably believes he's untouchable.

    Who takes over? The next psychopath in line, probably. It's not like DM ever needed anyone to designate him Supreme Leader. Hubbard certainly never did.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice


    and again for emphasis

  26. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I doubt it's a coup attempt. They know that Scientologists aren't supposed to listen to them now. And from what I've read, neither guy was particularly popular. Most seem to have had nothing but contempt for Rinder, even when they were in. Miscavige has faced down worse threats than these guys could ever pose.

    On the other hand, blaming DM for everything seem to be a quite popular and understandable scapegoat. These guys spent most of their adult lives in this damn cult. You expect them to abandon it all immediately? Depends on the individual, but it's not necessarily going to ever happen at all. If you follow Arnie's 8 step program, they'd be at steps 2 or 3.

    The fact that they still want to believe in the 'tech' and LRH (can't really have one without the other) doesn't necessarily mean anything, when it's typical behavior for someone relatively-recently out.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I was out and about town all day yesterday showing a friend places to live from Ybor, to S Tampa, to St Pete, to Dunedin. (The whole Bay Area).

    As we travelled I saw many Newspaper machines on corners or outside shops. I wanted day 2's article bad. None of the machines had papers left all over town. I finally got one late in St Pete, it was the second to last paper. I am not saying Scilons bought them all up. I am saying the people did. Add onto that all the papers that get delivered...and all the people that read the times online.....the word is out. The town knows. Lisa McPherson's face was all over the bay area. There is no recovery Scilons.

    I agree, locals, print up stuff, and go put them in the papers. Let the masses know we are there. Also, there is a list of the local politicians in another thread in this situation room. Use them. Put pressure on the city and Gus Bilirakis.
  28. basil Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Fine, I'll do it if nobody else is going to.

    First thing I'll do is strike a deal with the Raelians so we can combine our resources.

    Secondly, open a museum in Roswell with what we have between us.

    There's probably more money to be made in that.

    Oh, and the new female Sea Org uniform is a bikini.
  29. xoixoi1 Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    If DM is deposed (or goes on the run) it would be interesting who would take over if the cult survives.

    There would then be the problem of DM himself. He would want revenge. I bet he has a few stories to tell. How would he survive without his own team of bodyguards. We would track him down & demand to answer questions.

    How would the new management explain things at the IAS events?

    What would happen to the Tech DM altered? It has his fingerprints all over it. If they reverted back to the old Tech then all the members would have to repurchase the old Tech lol.

    DM, being Cruises buddy, means TC would be in a difficult position. If TC chooses the cult over DM then what about TC's wedding photographs (DM is in most of them)?

    If DM survives this (and I think he will), his authority will be severely dented. Cracks could appear in scientology like the time in 1971 when the British scinos threatened to break away (I wonder what happened to them?).

    I think you guys see where I am going. We could ask thousands of questions. This is because we are at a time of flux. Too many questions and too few answers means we need to keep working at this, disseminating as much as possible.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    YES. They are both still complete scilon idiots.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    tl;dr, but there are pix!!!

    WTF? there is a Florida Anonymous website: It might have been nice if you'd attached that to your flier since that's where we do our planning. Orlando, Miami, Ocala, St. Pete, J'ville, and Clearwater use this forum to plan.

    srsly, there are only a handful of us who protest and do stuff on the streets that live near Clearwater. only one of us doesn't work or go to school. it sure would be nice if we could wander aimlessly all over pinellas co. following the trucks delivering the paper, but what if we choose the wrong truck? y'all are heee-larious.

    Day Three Pix:

    chose this spot today because you can see the Super Power/Mecca Building towers in the background and you can also get a good shot of that pink building on the corner. That was a gentleman's shop that was established in 1935. They held on longer than anyone else except Stein Mart, but they finally went under last year. I miss that shop.



    Red circles in all pix are OSAflagot security guards.

    First pic is the back of the Coachman Building. There is always one standing there.


    However, this is new----they don't even stand on these corners when we protest or flash raid. This is the corner of Ft. Harrison Ave. and Cleveland. Closest OSAFlagot is standing at the front of the Coachman Building. Farthest OSAFlagot is on the corner of the Old Bank Building.


    This is the same corner yesterday. (Side joke from my husband: the difference between the OSA guards with the tan pants and the one's with black pants is that the guise in tan pants are allowed to punch the crosswalk buttons...)


    This picture was taken after I turned the corner onto Cleveland. This is the corner of Watterson St. and Cleveland St. These OSAFlagot sec guards don't normally stand here even during protests or raids.


    OSAFlagot sec guards also don't normally guard this solid door near the parking garage entrance on the front side of Ft. Homicide. This is new.


    Sadly, my concierge buddy did not smile at me today. I wonder if he got in trouble for my posting that he's been grinning at me the past two days?
  32. AnotherMrPink Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I have seen security at all those locations before. However, it was during the Sea Org 30 minute free time at noon. Make sure no one runs. I have never seen them just standing around for no reason. That looks like some fun flash raiding potential.

    I would love LOVE LOVE video of an anon with papers in downtown Clearwater dressed up like a 1920's paper boy yelling

    "Read all about it! Scientology leader abuses members!" and the like.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    They are there all day. Flash raids can happen at any given time...
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Aside from the fact that we all know this is a lie, it is an attempt IMO, to protect Scientology. Rinder could have blown the roof off fair game and by doing so saved the reporters and themselves from experiencing it. As could Rathbun. But they didn't. They all could have exposed disconnection as one of the reasons people don't leave the, but they didn't. Because IMO, they still believe the tech.
    And perhaps plan to use it when they take over.

    They have demonized DM, blamed everything on him, while protecting the tech and Scientology. Anons and OG have opened the door and made it safer for exes to talk. Rinder and Rathbun may have walked through that door and into the leadership of CoS.

    However, we need to prepare for the fact that it may well be used to unseat Davey and make way for a Rinder/Rathbun regime. They could use it as proof a kinder gentler CoS and lure exes and theirbank accounts back into the fold, while continuing with human trafficking, forced abortions and disconnect as a matter of Hubbard policy.

    This article is a big step towards exposing CoS, and will inform the public in ways we never could have. It needs to be used as a tool towards further exposure, by anons and exes. We must push for that and use it to expose Hubbard tech as the abusive cult entrapment that it is.

    We may have won this battle, but I fear the war may have just begun.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    I agree with you completely until you said, "We may have won this battle, but I fear the war may have just begun."

    I really don't think they can survive this. I do believe that Rinder and Rathbun want to stage a coup, but I don't think they realize how very little is left. Let them spill their guts---even if they're not telling the whole truth. It's only helping us.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    This is pretty much it in a nutshell. None of the abuses Anonymous have protested against - fair game, disconnection, slave labor, forced abortion, it's tax exempt status, and the very fact that organised Scientology is indeed a cult -were addressed by Rinder and Rathbun. This is clearly an attack on Miscavige, pure and simple.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    well, i for one found the violence at the top also outraging, so it's not entirely different. but even if they were to push through in case that they actually want a coup they have already admitted to using violence and there version of CoS would need to appear gentler and this would make it easier for us to point out the difference between the fiction of a nice Scientology and the reality of fair gaming CoS which employs disconnection. At least pro forma they would have to listen to us and let our voice be heard inside of CoS and this would mean the end as well. The Church of Scientology cannot suvive openness.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    well well isn't this neat
  39. Uncle Bruce Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 3 of 3: Ecclesiastical Justice

    Exactly! Most of the worse abuses of the cult were not mentioned. If you take the time to listen to Rathbuns' video interviews he is very careful to separate the tech on one hand and DMs' misuse on the other. He talks about how it all came clear to him by listening to LRHs' lecture about "black dianetics" and how the tech could be reversed to harm instead of improve people. This is what he accuses DM of doing. If you listen to him the only thing wrong with Scientology is DM, not the fact that it's rotten to the core.

    The one area they have a problem is not having any method of peaceful succession. Aside from what is going on now what would happen if DM was hit by a bus? Only a megalomaniac would fail to consider the possibility of the organization going on without him. DM is convinced that Scientology couldn't survive without him at the helm.

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