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The Antifa thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. The Internet Member

    440px-Antifasistische_Aktion_logo.svg.png

    I think Antifa is mostly a fake phenomenon (at least in the US) for a couple reasons.

    First, although anti-fascist protest groups go back to the 1930s, "Antifa" hasn't been a topic of conversation the last 20 years according to Google books and Google trends. Here's Google search frequency the last 12 months:

    Screen Shot 2017-08-30 at 2.57.36 PM.png

    Second, I bump into more people pretending to be Antifa than actual Antifa believers.

    Third, the hype around "violent leftists" coming from right wing media is far out of proportion to the reality of Antifa activities. For example, in Boston there were around 40,000 people in the streets peacefully protesting white supremacists. And yet right-wing news sites were like:


    Screen Shot 2017-08-30 at 2.53.39 PM.png
  2. The Internet Member

    Let's take a look at one fake antifa guy who managed to get an interview on Fox News.


    The photo of Karl Marx in the background is a nice touch.

    Kevin Stafford (born September 11, 1998), more commonly known by his username 'BG Kumbi' or 'BGK' (Kevin claims that 'BGK' stands for Based God Kumbi, a reference to the rapper Lil B, known by his nickname The Based God, who Kevin seems to be fond of) was a 15 year old YouTuber widely known for his so-called 'War with 9gag against 4chan', which occurred in the summer of 2012.​ Unbeknownst to many of his younger viewers, BG Kumbi is thought to be a fake persona created by Kevin, characterized by his ironic, untrue statements/stories and lack of knowledge regarding the outside world.

    More here: http://youtube.wikia.com/wiki/BG_Kumbi
  3. The Internet Member

    Here's an excerpt from the essay that Kevin claims to have written for itsgoingdown.org:
    When I look at Antifa or Black Block I see a small group of attention whores setting newspaper boxes on fire, breaking windows, throwing punches, and using pepper spray. Next to them I see thousands of peaceful citizens protesting normally. But somehow the violent people are responsible for "the movement" and the resulting social change?

    Itsgoingdown.org has this disclaimer under articles:
    Screen Shot 2017-08-30 at 3.33.53 PM.png
    That protects the site from lawsuits. But from context it's clear to me that the site fully supports this article. So I'm guessing itsgoingdown.org is in on the fake antifa propaganda operation. But probably not everyone contributing to that site. Antifa has suckered some sincere protesters who want to fight racism and fascism. I wish those sincere people could see how the armed militias on the other side are praying for "leftist violence" to justify their own lust for busting heads and shooting things.
  4. The Internet Member

    Some SF Fags may remember Paul Jay Salerno. I vaguely remember him as a concern troll complaining that chalking the sidewalk in front of the org was not a good look for protesters. Anyway, his Facebooks:

    Screen Shot 2017-08-30 at 4.34.16 PM.png

    Here is an essay he wrote yesterday explaining why a little violence is a good look for protesters, with a few comments from me.
    YES NO SHIT SHERLOCK!
    Thanks, but no.
    This bit reminds me of commercials showing a glass of OJ, some fruit, eggs, sausage, and a bowl of cereal with the announcer saying, "A bowl of Sugar Frosted Sugar Bombs is part of this healthy and nutritious breakfast."
    He left out, "Believe me."
    DOX OR GTFO. Dox that every single person "taking the beatings or being chased out in terror" is guilty of violence toward innocent people.
    Violence increases the risk that somebody will be seriously injured or killed during a protest. The mere fact that Antifa hasn't killed someone in the streets yet is not reassuring. Frankly, I feel *more* at risk now that I'm forced to be branded as "Antifa" against my will simply because I show up to protest some Trump stupidity.
    No, sorry. I don't make deals with the devil. That's what people who try to have things both ways do.
  5. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Look outside the US box.
  6. The Internet Member

    Please tell me more.
  7. Antifa are domestic terrorists. Fuck em'.
  8. The Internet Member

    People calling themselves antifa blocked speakers from attending the Boston Free Speech Coalition rally on August 19th. I'd heard that the "Free Speech" rally was really an Alt-Right rally and understood the massive counter-protest of about 40,000 in that context. But later I learned that the speakers were a broad spectrum of fringy types.

    I think the headline below isn't fair because most people I know who lean left are supportive of free speech events so long as the speech isn't preaching a need for violence. But Andrew Sullivan does make some good points.
  9. The Internet Member

    I don't think that's quite it. I think most antifa protesters are well meaning people wanting to stand up to the white supremacist revival going on around us. White supremacy is inherently threatening to non-white people and those who care about them.

    IMHO, antifa participants are wrong about the role of violence in public protests, probably because they are naive or living in an echo chamber. So it's up to me and others to explain why violence is counter-productive. I think the average antifa person will reflect and modify their views if their hearts are in the right place.

    I feel differently about the antifa leaders, at least in the US. I see them sending mixed signals. Sometimes they say that violence is only in self defense or the defense of others. Other times they say it's fine to punch Nazis because they are Nazis. When people get mixed messages they tend to hear what they want to hear and in this case that is dangerous.

    I don't get the feeling antifa leaderfags will listen to my arguments. I strongly suspect they don't mind fucking up protests I might attend, either because they are nihilists or they're working for far right extremists.
  10. The Internet Member

    Noam Chomsky: Antifa is a 'major gift to the Right'
    by Steven Nelson | Aug 17, 2017

    The left-wing "Antifa" movement is rising in prominence after clashing with white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., but one progressive scholar says the anti-fascists feed the fire they seek to extinguish.

    "As for Antifa, it's a minuscule fringe of the Left, just as its predecessors were," Noam Chomsky told the Washington Examiner. "It's a major gift to the Right, including the militant Right, who are exuberant."

    Many activists affiliated with the loosely organized Antifa movement consider themselves anarchists or socialists. They often wear black and take measures to conceal their identity.

    Chomsky said, "what they do is often wrong in principle – like blocking talks – and [the movement] is generally self-destructive."

    "When confrontation shifts to the arena of violence, it's the toughest and most brutal who win – and we know who that is," said Chomsky, a professor emeritus of linguistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "That's quite apart from the opportunity costs – the loss of the opportunity for education, organizing, and serious and constructive activism."

    More here: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/noam-chomsky-antifa-is-a-major-gift-to-the-right/article/2631786
  11. Ann O'Nymous Member

    • Do not underestimate the attraction of violence, on both sides.
    • The scope of Antifa is broader and more complex than White supremacists.
    • Some of them are nihilists, but I really doubt they are working for the far right. Chomsky is more convincing.
    • Think politics. Think complexity.
  12. Why I have a problem with Antifa in my (european) country:
    - They use violence at protests.
    - Politicians and police use them as excuse to criminialize peaceful protesters and to shut down protests.
    - There were cases of "agent provocateurs" = police officers sent to act as Antifa (committing smaller acts of crimes and provoking violence) so you never know how many Antifa are police.
  13. Police officers sent to act as Antifa?
    Dox or.
  14. 1. Infiltration:
    Mark Kennedy / Stone


    2. Action:


    Translated statement found inhttp://www.kritische-polizisten.de/themen/s21/dokumente/abendblatt_2010-10-18.pdf
    This brave officer refused to go to a protest and took a vacation day. Such behaviour is of course sanctioned by others, contradicting the "Corps-Geist".
  15. Ann O'Nymous Member

    • Like Like x 1
  16. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Didn't Paul get Swatted?
  17. The Internet Member

    I have no idea but would like to learn moar.
  18. The Internet Member

    More evidence that Antifa have the AIDS and cancer nobody wants.
  19. The Internet Member

    Interesting. I had to google to find out what "SPP" means:
    Ten years later and we are in the same boat. Major international corporations continue to conspire together to drive down the value of human labor and to weaken environmental protections. Large international corporations represent too much power in the hands of too few. Smart legal people amongst us need to figure out how to fix that.
  20. The Internet Member

    Trevor Noah breaks down the confused mess that is Antifa.

  21. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    SARS how many antifas are there? Nothing like the number of alt/right especially when you include the KGB
  22. After Bay Area violence, California debates classifying 'antifa' as a street gang


    [IMG]
    Anti-fascists fill a Berkeley park during recent protests. After the latest round of violence in the Bay Area, police and politicians have started to wonder whether anti-fascists and white nationalists should be considered street gangs. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times)

    James Queally, Benjamin Oreskes and Richard WintonContact Reporters

    Not long after dozens of black-hooded protesters were filmed pummeling people on his city’s streets, Berkeley Mayor Jesse Arreguin made clear his disgust for the self-stylized vigilantes.

    “Antifa,” he said, is no different than a street gang, and police should start treating protesters in the anti-fascist movement accordingly.

    Later that day, legislators in Sacramento advanced resolutions that would treat violent acts committed by antifa movement’s enemies — white nationalists and neo-Nazis — as terrorist acts under state law.

    As forces on the extremes of the nation’s ever-widening political divide continue to battle with fists and weapons on the streets of California, law enforcement officials and politicians have started debating whether these extremist groups should be classified as street gangs.

    continues: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-antifa-gang-20170904-story.html
  23. The Internet Member

    It's like this. A few thousand ordinary citizens network and agree to show up in some city center to protest a bad thing. 30-100 of the people who show up have black scarfs over their faces, sunglasses, and sticks, and they call themselves Antifa. Those drama whores get all the media attention and claim that they represent the protest movement. People in support of the bad thing also describe the protesters as a whole as "Antifa."

    tl;dr: Tiny amounts of cancer can kill you.
    • Like Like x 1
  24. I have to say it: FUCK YOU ANTIFA !

    JUST STOP YOUR FOOLISH BEHAVIOUR

    thecakeisalie.jpg
    • Like Like x 1
  25. The Internet Member

    Oh look there's a derivative Politics-In-A-Box group out there called, "Anticom."
    Anticom.jpg

    Just what we need. More people suckered into tribes and anti-tribes. Who needs the common ground of facts and rational argument when fury is so much more engaging?
  26. The Internet Member

    I wonder when "Anticom" rolled out. Google search images has a bunch of graphics for them.

    Screen Shot 2017-09-05 at 2.37.32 PM.jpg

    Everything seems so fake to me except for one bit, the effort to associate Black Lives Matter with "communism" and "antifa." Black Lives Matter is a public awareness campaign built around the fact that a disproportionate number of black people are shot by police.

    Anticom blm.png
  27. DeathHamster Member

    There's probably a dismissive attitude towards anyone not with them, considering them "Centerists" who are either unawake, gullible or collaborators, and that it's okay to hijack their worthless sham-protests.

    (The sort of problem that happens when people try to map complex issues onto a simplistic bullshit left-right axis.)

    This is a good video, but the attitude towards "gullible Centerists" is jarring (e.g. 11:25):


    The truth is that many people hate fascists without having to shift their politics leftward and start singing the Internationale.
    • Like Like x 1
  28. The Internet Member

    Thanks DeathHamster. I love this smart video.

    Yes, the speaker would probably classify some of my posts on WWP as examples of clueless centrism. But she seems thoughtful and I bet we would learn a lot from each other through our disagreement.

    Although the fascism we face today in Trumpland is white nationalism, there are other flavors. Japanese fascists aren't white nationalists, for example. However, when fascism is defined more generally so much falls away that what remains tends to poof out in a cloud of abstraction.

    "Left" and "right" have some meaning with respect to normal non-toxic political debates. Beyond this lukewarm middle ground, left and right begin to look like similar strongman miseries. So cranking up a left tribe to fight a right tribe might be self-defeating.

    I'm hoping that a better defined boundary between legit and toxic politics will provide more win as compared to a "find the fascist" strategy. I'm not sure about this though because I can see destructive counter-measures to every protective discourse rule I envision.
  29. The Internet Member

    Everyone who isn't a committed pacifist will fight back if cornered and attacked. So if self-defense is assumed, why would a protester need to say, "Imma fight if I have to"?

    The mere mention of potential violence at a protest implies that a participant is looking for a fight. He or she is entering an area expecting and maybe hoping for a physical confrontation.

    This is cancer. And by cancer I mean, this is the door your enemies or the police will use to infiltrate and destroy your protest activities.

    Therefore, separate yourself from any group or individual talking about violence at protests. Condemn violence. Don't go to protests wearing body armor and holding weapons. Instead show up with friends. Wear cameras. Behave in a friendly and gentle manner. Brink cake. That way winning.

    • Like Like x 1
  30. The Internet Member

    The first boundary I see between productive and toxic politics has to do with facts. Facts aren't political. Facts belong to everyone.

    The methods humans use to sort fact from fiction also aren't political. It should be possible for people with political disagreements to reach agreement upon the known facts relevant to some issue.

    If that is not the case, if Mr. Left and Mr. Right can't agree on the facts then we're looking at a toxic political situation. The truth is in danger in these situations. It's important that we feel some sense of alarm when we see this.

    Sadly, we have come to accept political debate in the absence of clear agreement on the facts. It's even become normal to "vote" for the facts you prefer to be true. This is why we cannot have nice things.
  31. The Internet Member

    The second boundary I see has to do with human rights. Are human rights universal or not? Things seem to go south when human rights belong only to certain groups. I don't have all the good words for saying this idea right though.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. The Internet Member

    The third boundary is also hard for me to say right. But don't let one guy or a small group of guys have absolute power over a government. Break power up using checks and balances.

    If I can articulate this boundary properly I believe I can keep fascism out of legit political discourse. Also probably communism and the anarchists as well.
  33. The Internet Member

    • Like Like x 1
  34. Har

    When McCarthy was Senator
  35. As long as there are Alt-Reich Nazis parading their sick fuck racist vile ... Antifa will be a permanent fixture. Get used to the fact.
  36. Not unless we get into their heads and all that other motherfuckin tango down shit folks like you spout daily.
    Familiar somehow .
  37. Oh' I see, so you're one of "THOSE" people who think that it is "cool not to care" . It's not. Effort is cool. Caring is cool. This entire thread is negative and nihilistic. What have you done lately to make the world a better place? .. Talk is cheap.

    254.jpg
  38. Talk is cheap especially the rhetoric you are spouting on here dude. Reign it in you're looking like the most reactionary fool imaginable.

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