The Edge interview with First Amendment attorney Luke Lirot

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    • Like Like x 5
  2. This promises to be unmissable. Together with Tom's outstanding quality of research and insightful questions, his guest has the inside story that needs to be told - the rough, shabby justice of another murky case involving Scientology.

    I know I need to hear this, and can't wait to read anons' responses.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. muldrake Member

    Luke is a geniune mensch.

    Unfortunately, this case was screwed at its inception by a slipshod investigation by what appears to be a compromised cop with a conflict of interest. While I doubt the cop deliberately fumbled the investigation, when one's objectivity is compromised by personal interest, it can lead to an inferior investigation.

    As a result, the evidentiary record was basically trashed.

    As sad as it is, there is sometimes nothing a lawyer can do to repair this kind of bungling.
  4. Pardon my ignorance, muldrake, but are there such things as Coroner's inquests in the US? Has anyone apart from the cops ruled Kyle's death as suicide?

    If there is evidence of a bungled investigation (and it seems there is) , that should be the starting point for a new investigation, by an outside police force.
  5. muldrake Member

    I believe all parties are agreed that Kyle actually did commit suicide. The legal issue in this case is whether people who owed him a duty of care failed to live up to it and this caused an otherwise avoidable suicide.

    Sadly, the Eleventh Circuit has decided the summary judgment was properly granted, in the kind of per curiam opinion that basically just says the lower court was right in its opinion. Thus, barring an en banc appeal, this is now the law in the Eleventh Circuit.

    Courts apply the law that actually exists, not what they wish it were. I personally think what Scientology did in this case should be illegal. There should be a law against incompetent lunatics giving horrible psychiatric advice that leads to people dying. There generally is, in every state, a law against giving incompetent medical advice, for instance, that leads to incompetent surgery. There is usually not a law specifically against incompetent quacks giving bogus psychiatric advice based on the drug-induced hallucinations of a dead science-fiction writer.

    I hope some legislators with some balls and/or ovaries show up and actually draft such legislation, but I am not exactly holding my breath. I think existing laws cover such situations, but the Eleventh Circuit doesn't agree with me, and well, they're kind of the final authority if you happen to live there.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Thanks, muldrake. You can see why I need to hear this broadcast. Some anons had suggested that Kyle's death may have been other than suicide, but that the police investigation was so poor that they had not established even this beyond reasonable doubt.
  7. YouSeeNothing Member

    My understanding from the judge's position during the hearing is that they didn't even believe there was a duty of care. A father has no obligation to their adult son. I was looking for anything in those depositions that resembled a duty of care--from Brennan being Kyle's landlord to being his medical advocate when he took those drugs from him. That was the other major point of contention, the meaning of "took'. Sad day is sad.
  8. Quentinanon Member

    Bump for justice.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Quentinanon Member

  10. anonymous612 Member

    Not even close.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. YouSeeNothing Member

    Listening. Thanks.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Is there a list anywhere of all people who have been harrassed/made complaints agains't or by the church?
    Together we are stronger. I mean, imagine them trying to attack every person on the list at once? It would be both obvious and impossible. There really is a lot of people and cases should be filed under a huge stack of papers to bury them under.
    Either that or the poor abused tabloids should team up agains't and all post on it at once. Theres no way the Church has power over te tabloids. Together the tabloids and whistleblowers have power over them, but judging by there tactics, the weakness of them is such that it has to be a combined effort.
    It has to be a combined effort (echos!)
  13. JohnnyRUClear Member


    I point this out because "agains't" is an extremely uncommon error and thus a good way to blow your anonymous cover.
    • Like Like x 3

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