The Revolution Will Not Be Hijacked

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by FintanDunne, Jul 17, 2009.

  1. FintanDunne Member

    The Revolution Will Not Be Hijacked

    It's coming up to 1:30pm in Tehran right now, but already, before Rafsanjani
    has even begun to speak: there's a reek of sellout in the air.

    That's not surprising with Rafsanjani involved. It's the sort of thing to be
    expected from a master political chess-player. And yes, this is politics Jim.
    But not as we know it.

    Mousavi should know it. Greatness came out of the shadows and thrust itself
    upon him. That greatness rode on the shoulders of a people inspired with
    detestation for an oppressive government, rather than a love of Mousavi.
    But it was greatness nonetheless.

    There is talk of working within the system. But nothing less than the
    departure of Ahmadinejhad and/or the no-longer-Supreme Leader will do.

    Absent these systemic changes, by showing up to listen to Rafsanjani,
    Mousavi will cast nascent greatness to the winds of politics. Old politics.

    The politics of the back room. The politics of vested interests. If Mousavi
    does this it will be a calamitous error. Iran may very well take a step forward.
    But it wants to take a giant leap, and Mousavi should know this.

    The people know it. They have not come this far and shed this much blood to
    make an incremental advance. This is not about an election, nor is it any
    longer about Mousavi. It's about time.

    It's about time, that Iran embraced it's own greatness. And the people know
    that. After all, it is their Revolution. Over the last few weeks, while the leaders
    played old politics, the people were out in the streets constructing a new
    politics. A politics without leaders. A politics capable of solving Iran's massive
    national problems.

    The Genie is not only out of the bottle. The Genie has smashed the bottle
    and has no intention of ever returning to it.

    Politicians everywhere tremble at the thought.

    And scramble to hijack the Revolution.

    Follow on Twitter:
  2. JohnDoe Moderator

    "The Genie is not only out of the bottle. The Genie has smashed the bottle
    and has no intention of ever returning to it."

    Let's hope the genie completes the job quickly!
  3. FintanDunne Member



    Rafsanjani's damp squib speech was a yesterday's man's address.
    We waited this long for.... that!?

    The attempt to hijack the Revolution has drowned in
    a lot of Rafsanjani waffle about the previous revolution
    and talk of negotiating with killers and oppressors.

    Tainting him and all the opposition politicians who attended.
    They have dithered and slowed the people's momentum.

    The initiative is back with the people.
    Back with the streets.

    Nothing will stop them.
  4. JohnDoe Moderator

    That's an interesting analysis. Kind of goes along with the tweets last week that called for him to speak, before it was too late and the people wouldn't be listening to him any more.

    I do think though by not condemning the protests he has king of given them the green light. He also has put the responsibility back unto the regime to listen to and respect the people - yes allbeit to keep the regime in place, but I'm not sure that that's what the people want.
    They started out wanted free and open elections, I think they now want complete separation between church and state.
  5. Cheer for the New Boss
    Same as the Old Boss

    When it's all over, Neda's still dead and the same Bosses will be running things. What? You thought there would be a change?

    Money, (true) power and the machine gun talk,
    Bull**** (people power) walks (to the execution wall)!
  6. JohnDoe Moderator

    Go take a hike.
  7. damp squib, limp wrist: what's the diff?

    There were a few references in your blog about greatness being thrust upon folks like Moussavi and the opposition and the clerics. The full reference is to "Some are born to greatness, some grow into greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them."

    In this case it looks more like "Some slither out of their mother's belly; some slither into being the biggest bully on the block; and some are the grateful, fawning, slithering recipients of major personality disorders."

    What a lattice of deceit, self-interest, and betrayal ! And all this while hundreds of thousands of Iranian ethnic minorities starve where they stand or die screaming in prisons.

    God help us all. :mad:
  8. What? Can't deal with a historical truth being repeated? Ignorant peasant.

    God only helps those who help themselves...
  9. By descending to the level of personal attack, you have conceded the discussion.

    Cain said something similar.
  10. a desert Member

    Only helps those who help themselves? I guess volunteers and militaries who have come to the aid of others were fooling themselves, only God is capable of making a change in the world.

    * snorts * Peasant? Listen, just because Burger King gives you a crown...
  11. Machiavelli Member

    I've just read Rafsanjani's full speech.

    I don't think anybody's hijacking the revolution.
    R. is not an idealist, he's a power player and strategist. But that said, he was pretty clear. He said, there is a crisis and it's not the people's fault.

    You should see this as a "Good cop, bad cop" thingie.

    The people are angry, but I (Rafsanani) really want to help you. Do you want me to help you? Then cooperate.
    This is directed at the still indecisive mullahs and its pretty well done.

    I know a lot of people would like to do away with the mullahs wholesale, but this will not be achieved in a single day.
    For the moment the lunatics (Mesbah-Yazdi) have to be stopped.
  12. Most of us in Iran thought it was as good a speech he could give without risking his own and our movement peoples lives. It seems like some of you have your agendas and want to tell us what to do and say. It is not you who will get beat or killed in the streets. It is not your home they will come to in middle of night. fuck you!
  13. Machiavelli said, "I would rather be feared than loved." Ring any bells?
  14. FintanDunne Member

    This was a time for firm words from Rafsanjani.

    I'm simply tuned in to what the people themselves clearly want.

    Again they came out in huge numbers.
    Again they risked life and limb; risked arrest and torture.
    Their determination today, visible and unmistakable.

    What indecisive mullahs?? Over a month after the people spoke, anybody who
    is coming on board with the people is on board. Anybody who isn't, won't.

    Do you really think the Regime which has slaughtered the people in the street
    by the scores -without conscience- will respond to soft words of negotiation?

    Delay and soft words will NOT save lives.

    If the regime gets a chance to regroup, it will pick off the opposition like a
    vulture picking at a corpse. Night by night, one by one they will disappear.

    Remember Argentina.

    Truth is that while momentum is on the people's side, it is now or never.

    So let it be now.
  15. Yep. Tell it, Fintan!
  16. Hechicera Member

    Eh, you talked of journalistic standards in a previous thread. I looked at the original post in this thread and thought .. is he trying to be the news or report the news?

    I know it is a hard subject not to get fired up about, but second page and you're still looking like news. Objectivity.
  17. Fintan has a blog. Blogs are not pure news. They are a mix of news and comment on that news.

  18. How nice of you to say from your comfortable chair...We will keep that in mind when we are tear gassed and shot at

  19. JohnDoe Moderator

    If most people in Iran thought it was a good speech, then who are we to say otherwise? We are definitely not the ones facing tear gas or bullets or Evin.
  20. The name Fintan should give ya some notion of how comfortable some folks's chairs have been in the last 3 centuries. And that's the last I am going to mention that!

    You were mistaken. You jumped the gun and assumed that no one but someone who looks like you and has a name like you can understand struggle, pain, bondage, and


    And I use the colour green with a double dose of faith and pride.

    Climb down.
  21. It is an unsubstantiated claim. Please quantify "most." How many people did he survey? How many of that group said it was a good speech? Is this going to be another missing votes kind of thing?


    Also there were numerous twitters saying:

    Good speech?
  22. JohnDoe Moderator

    I've no idea how many, I do know one very well however, (spouse!) who listened in great depth to it, and felt it was the best speech he could have given in the circumstances - given that he is part of the establishment, he is a mullah and he wants to keep the Islamic Republic. (Which spouse definitely doesn't I can assure you!)

    (EPG on this forum, and Oxford girl all came to the same conclusion as spouse to there's 3!;))

    How many of the Twitters you quote are actually from inside Iran?
  23. Hechicera Member

    Fine, but I reference a different thread where he *was* on his high horse about the poor journalistic standards of other journalists. Don't make me turn this car around and dig up the link!

    I'm only asking him to hold himself to his own standards. And, what I ask is not an easy thing to do! I'm not sure I could do it actually, so. It is hard for humans to keep objectivity.

    I think, in journalism, a debate will come too on what platform is a message board? A Blog can be a mix, but if you want it to be taken as serious journalism, it must try to hold to standards. He has stated he tries. Of course, even a serious journalist in private has opinions too. Is a message board public or private? I think (my opinion) that the nature of this message board would make what is posted here "public speech".
  24. Anti-Rafsanjani chants... Or maybe not.

    The following is from the Huff Po blog:

  25. FintanDunne Member

    I've worked as a professional journalist in mainstream media. Let me just point
    out that 'objectivity' and 'journalistic standards' are two separate aspects of

    At it's worst, journalism both dumps objectivity and twists standards to suit.

    Adhering to standards means I don't make things up or make claims that I
    can't stand over. But so-called objectivity is often just parroting the editorial
    line of the media owner. It's mostly mythical.

    You can be passionate about people's rights against Power and still hold fast
    to proper journalistic standards. In fact, unless you do hold to standards
    then you are just a polemicist -not a journalist.

    Objectivity is often merely a sick disconnectedness from human suffering.
    All dispassionate objectivity was washed out of me when Power tore both
    arms off Ali Abbas in Baghdad, and killed his entire family. Or when the U.S.
    used chemical weapons of mass destruction against the people of Fallujah.

    So, I'm no armchair enthusiast for the Iranian cause. I'm an independent
    journalist for ten years now, and the pay is lousy but the rewards rich.
    Iran, Iraq, Tibet. It's all the same struggle. And the Iranian people may
    win a vital battle against Power for themselves and for us all. So much
    rides on this.

    That's why I'm in.

    I have to be in. I still can't believe I'm the only journalist to regularly call and
    then air respected journalist Dahr Jamail at his hotel in Baghdad for 45 minute
    audio interviews about the reality of what was happening. It only meant lifting
    a phone and dialing! Where was the whole profession? Regurgitating the
    lies of the propaganda apparatus and taking care not to disturb the agenda,
    that's where.

    That's why I'm in.

    And that's why I am critical of what I see to be the tactical disaster of any
    slowing of momentum. Power is working right now to ambush and destroy the
    Iranian Uprising.

    Not just Iranian Power but international Power. ( )

    You are a threat to them all.

    There is not a moment to lose.
    Speed will reduce casualties -not increase them.
    Momentum is vital in any battle. Vital.

    Act. Now.
  26. Behind the green line collecting faxes and passing them on to their superiors.
  27. WitteKr Member

    Objectivity is often merely a sick disconnectedness from human suffering

    Quote: "Objectivity is often merely a sick disconnectedness from human suffering."

    How very true! And well put. There is a risk that when you do get connected to the human suffering, objectivity *flies* out of the window.
    But we should also expect journalists to *care* about what they are reporting. I applaud Fintan Dunne for doing so.

    Where ever one is - in an armchair or on Vali Asr street - it is everybody's right to come to the conclusion that Rafansjani's speech is 'old politics' - and he took away the momentum. Because of all the double speak, we now first need a week to analyse what's been said... It's not a very spiritual way to guide the people in distress in Iran right now.

    But who am I to judge? I've been in my chair all these days, behind my computer, not having much sleep. And only because I visited that wonderful country, met the people and feel the *whole world* would be much better off without this awful regime.

    I'm passionate about this - and am happy to see everybody here is too. In contrast with main stream media...
  28. Ray Murphy Member

    It's quite scary - seeing how the media and the majority of journalists have conspired to keep the uprising fairly quiet. It was understandable for the U.S. journalists to stay fairly quiet while Cheney and his sidekick were running their GWOT and threatening them, but there is no excuse for that sort of thing in free countries any more.
  29. WitteKr Member

    No idea what this is about (but I'm not from the USA), sidekick, GWOT???
    Newsnight, the main BBC news program at the end of the day, is reporting on it in a few minutes...
    (But you're right: main stream media is too reluctant to report on what's coming out via Twitter, Facebook, Flickr, Youtube, you name it. They still need to get used to this, I guess...)
  30. Fair enough. We all do the best we can to look at incoming information and to assess it. At least some of us do. I do, I assure you. With the demise of MSM, this is difficult. Also with the immediacy and speed with which today's uprising happened, this is difficult.

    Your evidence is anecdotal. Mine at least draws from numerous different sources.

    When all is said and done, there is an internal logic to what people actually do quite apart from their words. I keep on hearing some of the clerics are working behind the scenes, that they are still with the people.

    The job of the clerics and opposition leaders is to LEAD! To whom much is given, much is expected and so far much has been given to the privileged yet we have seen BUPKISS from them in terms of giving back.

    The internal logic is that we hear little from them, and when we do hear something, it is ambivalent, "subtle," safe, mystifying, misleading, and surprising.

    Gen. Stonewall Jackson said that the job of a general in wartime is to mystify, mislead, and surprise. Observe carefully here. It is the people who are being mystified, misled, and surprised here, not the regime.

    Just who, praytell, do the clerics and opposition leaders believe is the enemy? Obviously not the regime.

    That leaves the (inconvenient) people and, of course, the (ever-convenient) "ethnic minorities" and foreigners.

    Big question I guess is do the clerics and opposition leaders believe they are their brother's keepers? Or not? Where is the evidence of their love for their countrymen and trusting followers? Hint: nowhere to be found on the planet Earth.

    Just my two cents worth.
  31. Ray Murphy Member

    A 'sidekick' could be a mate or deputy. In this case GWBush.
    The 'GWOT' was a newspaper-declared war, called the "Global War On Terror" -- not a real war declared by the U.S. Congress. Many people were conned into believing they had to act as if the U.S. was at war - including some journalists apparently.

    It's good to hear the BBC is saying something. In Australia it's virtually a non-issue. It's not happening.
  32. No. Only a wee while ago CNN was quite proud of the twitter section of their coverage. They had developed their own little collection of trusted sources in the social networkds.

    So, what happened between then and now? I'd really like to be a fly on that wall.
  33. JohnDoe Moderator

    Hey Bugs Bunny we're going to agree!!!! Sky did the same thing on their web page, and can I find their tweets now? Neither for love nor money!

    But as I keep saying, this is happening without the big boys watching, and that makes it even more powerful!
    And hey at least the faithful pilgrims can come here:)

    Maybe Ray, we should make invites for all the big media guys and invite them to this party? If they hurry up them might just be in time for the swansong of the regime!!!!!
  34. Ray Murphy Member

    They only need to ask different witnesses to comment on the same things or report what the various video clips are showing - or if they are in Tehran, look out the window etc.
  35. Ray Murphy Member

    I'm genuinely astonished by the journalists' collective inaction. I wouldn't have thought it was possible. We all know they can write about unsubtantiated things and do it all the time, and we know they can track down a fair bit of corroborating evidence, but they have chosen not to.

    I keep getting the feeling that it is stemming from a few governments who have only one thing in mind - to crush Iran the hard way.
  36. JohnDoe Moderator

    Bugs Bunny,

    I am not an apologist for Rafsanjani, I have huge doubts about the man's agenda - he's no angel. But being married to an Iranian, has helped me see things from a different side. My spouse spent the whole afternoon listening to and going into every nuance that Raf said, and came to the conclusion that in the circumstances he had actually gone as far as he could and still keep his head. He could not come out and say "Marg Bar Kahmani" - but he used the Koran to show how he was being unIslamic.

    All I'm saying is, we've got to trust the Iranian people to make their own judgment. Spouse was sure it was because of what he said that people were reinvigorated to protest in such large numbers today. Remember that hasn't happened in 4 weeks.

    It may well be that Rafsanjani is on borrowed time, and that within a week from now people will be looking for stronger leadership from him. I have no idea. I just know that many people were surprised at how strongly he came out in favour of the Green Wave, having made no public association before now.

    Here's another way to look at it:
    For those who felt he encouraged them, they were given the green light to continue in greater numbers their protest.
    For those who thought he should have done more, well then they have now sidelined him and are going on with their protests anyway.
    For those who thought he spoke from both sides of his mouth, well they will take the things they want and do with it what the will.

    I sincerely think the only ones who will be totally unhappy with him are . . . . yeah you've guessed it:
    Amamadman & Khaminidiot!!!
  37. What revolution are you talking about in the first place?

    We need unity now!
  38. JohnDoe Moderator

    Ray the day that the media switched off Iran to cover Michael Jackson was the day I stopped watching them. They lost all semblance of credibility that day. But we have seen it sooooooo often in the past, and empty media - supposedly pushing their gvt agendas.

    Thank God (and I mean that!) for the internet!
  39. I agree. The point is: the people chose; the people seized their destinies with both hands and with all their heart. That is the sea-change.

    Raf, therefore, was a peripheral player.

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