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The show must go on!

Discussion in 'Help Iran Online' started by Unregistered, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. I see topics dying out and hardly new ones created.

    It seems that the interest is dying out.
    I still can see most of the sites up which we try to down for example.

    Why is this?
    A rise up from the Iranian people against the bastards who are in charge now is not easy and will need more time than a few weeks.
    People are getting tortured and murdered every day in Iran.

    Please people, keep it up and keep the topics alive and running!
  2. Ray Murphy Member

    Come back in 2 hours when it's all happening again.
  3. Sorry to say Ray, but the average time of last reply on the topics of the 1st page is 3 days or more.
    But I'll stick around for a few more hours.
  4. Ray Murphy Member

    There has been a lot of activity here. Are you following all the threads or just the ones that show on the right panel?
  5. I'm talking about 'Help Iran Online'.
  6. Ray Murphy Member

    It has been extremely busy up until about 48 hours ago when it dropped back to being very busy.
  7. Vee Member

    He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious. - Sun Tzu, The Art of War. c.400-320 b.c.
  8. Ray Murphy Member

    Could someone try to interpret that?
  9. Vee Member

    Sometimes you have to wait for a vulnerability to come up before you can do something. Catch them un patched and unprepared.

    Unfortunantly hollywood made compromising systems look easy.
  10. Ray Murphy Member

    The Iranian people did - they waited for a rigged election, and know they have the numbers to win. We here on the sidelines are just making it a lot easier.
  11. Ray, I have been following your posts for the last three weeks or so and I know your heart is totally in the right place. So please do not take offence. But I do not think we are making it a lot easier. People are dying on the streets or else they are dying under torture and rape. So maybe we are making it just a tiny bit easier.
  12. For my own part, I'm battering gerdab with shattering blows from my mighty... aw, who am I kidding? Gerdab's a freakin' fortress now. Still, I'm running slow loris while I await some better use of my time and resources. Maybe this haystack thingy will fill the bill. Otherwise, I'll probably just set up a tor node and start sifting through tweets for useful intel.
  13. Please do not think I am underestimating our efforts. Running Tor, Slowlorising the hell out of them, etc., they are all useful and needed. But there is nothing "easy" about what these brave people are doing...
  14. Sorry Ray, the only 'live topic' is this one in 'Help Iran Online', unfortunately.
    And with
    Service Uptime - Uptime Monitoring Statistics there laughin' at our face.
  15. I know -- I just didn't want you to think that silence necessarily means inactivity. Some of us are simply playing it cool, all James Bond-like (cue theme song).
  16. Ray Murphy Member

    The "standing in front of" Gerdab.ir holds little interest for me because the crew cannot even get themselves coordinated and do their thing in the same time windows.

    They have however slowed it down considerably at times and they have also caused the murderous Iranian regime to whine about it.
  17. Ray Murphy Member

    Don't be concerned - no one would offend me if they are simply mentioning or even criticizing my enthusiastic style. You could be right - perhaps random input from whole world outside of Iran is making only a tiny difference, but it's what Iranian people have asked us to do and continue doing.

    Each of us is helping to generate noise and point others around the world to the plight of the protestors. In my case, besides helping to keep threads alive, I have been repeatedly dropping words that Google is picking up and dropping in people's In-boxes daily with their "Google Alerts" for their non-political topics.

    If it turns out that you are right, and the participation of the outside-world has only made a tiny difference by the time fair elections are held, I'll be consoled by the fact that I learned a hell of a lot while I was here.
  18. Doing what I can, learning a lot, but there is only so much one can do from the outside.

    Protect the sniglets was the first and most important objective. Tor and possibly haystack will help that. As well as helping with encouragement and kind words on Twitter.

    Keep the news going, let the world know what is happening. Josh is doing an outstanding job of that and some of the major news media are picking up on his nightly reports.

    Distract and attack the enemy. Only so much we can do from the outside. I am running slowloris, microsoft web application, slamming the smtp server, sometimes running longcat and ion cannon, I am open for suggestions but most of us here are low tech and need specific instructions.

    spamming info@gerdab.ir

    So, anyone want to help a poor windows user out with ideas?
  19. Mm? I just kind of assumed most of us are running 24/7 or at least throughout daylight hours in Tehran. I confess it's been a source of concern for me though considering that slowloris.pl is so CPU intensive.


    There have been IP bans but it seems like you've really got to be standing out from the crowd to incur one now.
  20. Srpska Member

    Friday prayers by Mousavi may boost things somewhat.
  21. Ray Murphy Member

    I just wish a bunch of people would agree to do their thing at specific times of day times of day (using GMT) so others can see how long it takes them to connect. One hour time windows would be good. I'm not doing it myself because it is probably not legal here.
  22. Where's here Ray?
    It's nice to ask people to do something when you're NOT?
    Come on Ray, the things we're asking here are only illegal in Iran.
    Are you broadcasting from Iran?
  23. Ray Murphy Member

    Australia. We had new laws made a few years ago in relation to doing some things that could destabilize another officially recognized nation, although I have no idea if Australia recognizes Iran.
  24. Vee Member

    We have an embassy there. So who knows.
  25. Ray Murphy Member

    Yes, I just looked and saw it showing.
    I would imagine that U.S. citizens have no laws of a similar nature to observe.
  26. US has more laws against these type of actions than any other country.
    Sounds to me you're advising people to act, when you're hiding behind your fears and excuse yourself behind a law.

    Somebody wrote: When Dictatorship is a fact, revolution becomes a right.

    Cheap Ray, very cheap.
    Lots of words these weeks, but it turns out you're doing nothing yourself.
  27. Ray Murphy Member

    But can you quote a single one?

    On the contrary - I am not advising anyone to tie-up anyone's website. I am however interested in seeing if any attempts work.

    Quotes that sound impressive are not law on most occasions.
  28. First of all, I think that's unfair to Ray. I'm a self-righteous asshole, but I have noticed Ray's posts enough to feel I have a decent idea of personality, and I really do think this "admonishment," is at least a bit over the line.

    That said, I don't know exactly how the Australian legal system works, and whether your prosecutors and judges are elected or appointed and for what length of time, but I imagine that any prosecutor who would level charges and any judge who would find you guilty for using slowloris against a website being used to identify peaceful protesters for arrest would be committing career suicide. And, if I am wrong on that, then Australians should consider if their own government might need some heavy overhauling.

    And anyway, you're not talking about running a botnet, and the only reason slowloris has an impact is because so many separate people run it. You have a better chance of getting jailed for j-walking.
  29. Ray Murphy Member

    I've taken an interest in Australian and Common law for many years, but the appointment of judges and prosecutors has never been much of a public issue to my knowledge. I basically trust them all to do a fair job.
  30. Sunshine-IRAN Member

    I also feel this is unfair. After all, hacking isn't for everyone, depending on the reason. I firmly believe that keeping yourself informed and committed to preventing the past (specifically the events that lead up to this moment in history) from repeating itself is a very noble intent. Since you seem to expect that we need to fill out time charts of how much time we have donated to the cause what is it that you are doing that gives you the right to judge Ray on his actions? Further, there are many other ways to help online other than hacking. Spam can be fun... The phone calls/faxes are good, we have been very successful appealing to hosts (remember the sites hosted by the planet?)

    Also, I believe that simply being a positive force where Iranians can reach you is another very noble cause. Anyone who believes in the green movement should want the protestors' spirits to stay high. Ray has proved himself time and time again to be a positive influence within these forums.

    As for the upset over not enough being done/discussed to take down websites... There are loads of people still working their butts off to pull these sites down. Further, by all appearances it seems that there needs to be a new strategy for online attacks. Wasting time attempting attacks that gerdab and others have now been able to block is uselss. To quote Captain Jack, "wait for the opportune moment." Don't waste your resources...instead of spending your time trying time and time again failed tactics (or no longer successful tactics... :p) spend your time studying different tactics. Find times that the websites are more suseptable to attack. Find your opportune moment and grab onto it!
  31. Or you can just get a bunch of friends to tell their friends and their friends to all send traffic to gerdab....

    Mabey you guys should look for the RBN and their botnets.....
  32. Ralim Member

    I also hail from Australia, Ray, but I am not as active as you are. That enthusiasm of yours is very reassuring to see.

    But know that just because the forums haven't been so active as before doesn't mean that the movement has been abandoned. We all have to pace ourselves for what will be a very long haul, otherwise we'll get burnt-out by the very image that little seems to have been achieved. Push yourself and you'll be left with no energy to help.

    We all have different paces and levels at which we can help. Behind the scenes, we have organisers of protests; tech-savvy people ready for IT "combat"; and people among the Iranian population gathering the truth. Some people such as NiteOwl (author of The Green Brief, Allah bless him) work tirelessly to keep the momentum going; others such as dear old unregistered contribute to discussions wherever they can or whenever they wish; and others more, such as myself, mostly read the posts, responding on a very occassional basis. But no matter how involved we are, everyone here on the forums (apart from the f-in' trolls) has contributed in some way to the Green Movement - even if it meant simply watching.

    Sometimes it is enough to just read threads without response. Sometimes some threads die out as the movement moves on and new threads are created. Sometimes, it is enough just to remain anonymous and listen to what the truth really is. But above all the many actions one can take in this movement, one thing is essential: never treat this movement with an indifferent heart.

    And I look to you, Ray, as an example of one without indifference: one who has not faltered since the beginning, representing the Australian spirit in the Green movement. Pace yourself, but all the same continue to maintain your enthusiasm. You have my respect!
  33. Vee Member

    G'day Fellow Aussie.

    Excellent post. You pretty much hit the nail smack on the head.
  34. You're way off on this point. There are very few limited resources when it comes to computing power when talking about taking on a site. The only real scarce resource is time so that is what should be managed. The most efficient way of succeeding in such a situation is to try everything. Something will stick. Studying tactics and pondering things is the only way to waste the one scarce resource, time.
  35. Sunshine-IRAN Member

    I'm talking about the people who want to help but don't actually know much about computers. There are lots of people saying "when are we going to take down gerdab.ir" who just don't have the ability to do much, as they don't have that kind of computer knowledge. My point is either use your current knowledge/talents to find a way to help or learning how to help in a way that is needed.

    You say "try everything." In my opinion, trying is a way of studying/learning. Learn, try, get better, try something else, learn something, try something else...and so on so forth.
  36. Sunshine,

    When you're an idiot barbarian like me faced with puzzling technology and pretty buttons and a whole bunch of hell at the other end, the only option is to spam all the pretty buttons.

    That's pretty much what the technologically illiterate can do. And hey, it's bound to hit something at least once. :D
  37. Ray Murphy Member

    It's possible to know a lot about computers and still know bugger-all
    about hacking or one's own security and legal risks while attempting it.

    As long as something is being achieved by each of us, either directly
    or indirectly for the people on the ground in Iran and their worried
    friends and family all over the planet.

    Sure, anything we do is having SOME effect - hell, even most of the
    trolls in this forum have been helping to keep the place busy and
    providing more opportunity for others to keep exposing the problems
    in Iran.

    Since I've been here, I've noticed a vast array of contributions that
    would have helped directly or indirectly. There are SO many contributions
    that help:
    * Providing links
    * Providing opinion
    * Correcting errors and misinformation
    * Doing experiments and reporting on them
    * Publishing news (like NiteOwl)
    * Emptying the troll's rubbish (by the moderators)
    * Expressing anger, grief, disgust, etc.
    * Showing friendship to Iranian people
    * Being here 24 hours a day for Iranian people - keeping a vigil
  38. akuma_river Member

    I'm pots all at the tech side of computers. Math has never been my forte, I'm more of a writer.

    So what I do is watch and read the news about Iran, find links to stories and report them, I give my somewhat informative opinion on things, I have a blog post on a big political community on livejournal and I'm setting up another one on blogspot, and I'm trying my best to inform others of what is going on. A lot of people are busy working, we are in a major recession/depression, and they are more concerned with providing food on the table than looking up individual stories on Iran so these compilations of news, vids, and informative links helps them to stay informed and not have to waste time finding it.

    As long as we talk to others about what is going on and keeping them informed we are doing a lot to help the Green Sea Movement because we are spreading the word about them and keeping people's interest in Iran. We get media attention on Iran through Nico Pitney, CNN, The Daily Show by making sure we show them that we are still interested in the happenings going on and we spam them to do the right thing and keep showing stories on Iran.

    CNN has been doing good with it's Iran footage in comparison to MSNBC, FOX News, and the networks.

    On Saturday is the big Global Day of Action and then there is the 40th day anniversary of Neda's death.

    Not to mention that some of the congressmen are speaking out on Iran. Helping to keep Iran in the news.

    It's not as effective as being there in person or trying to 'take down' these websites but we all have our different roles to perform in order to help this movement. Looking at the news in the world, soon this won't just be about Iran but about a green democratic movement encompassing the world...but especially the middle east.

    Just my two cents.
  39. Hechicera Member

    I think everyone contributing according to their capabilities is all anyone can ask.

    As a retired tech/engr. type, I have been trying to answer tech questions. Since I'm also running a Tor exit node (and my ISP had someone over who thought it was "waaaaaay cool" yesterday), I can't afford to engage in the black hat sides actively. I do know my risks, I want my exit node up for the long haul. It won't be if it is used for attacks often.

    But, I can offer this to the imcharginmahlazors active force. Military and computer defense have a lot in common. When the enemy fortifies the prime target and you can't take it down. Stop. This is not a regular army, we aren't the NSA. Stop. Communicate.

    Pick a new target. Find the softest target with the most psychological impact.

    Call targets! In advance is fine. Openly is fine. Why?

    A - the attack hits and does damage, the psychological impact is great and magnified by the warning

    B - the attack is a near hit (situation now on Gerdab), just showing up means you are still there, psychological FUD principle, target was called, skirmishers showed themselves but no full scale attack is unsettling

    C - the attack is a wide miss, did they waste resources defending it? Then it is still a win.

    You start to control their actions, and this is good. They are now reacting to you again. I'm not in the right place to call targets. Maybe someone will step up and start calling a rotating target selection. Just a thought if you want to continue those activities.

    Not every group needs to have the same target every day either.

    Find ways to set up a "Main Assist" like in games. If you don't have enough DPS for the primary targets you switch targets, you already know this. Just, this isn't a game.

    Fight the battles you can win, then withdraw ASAP and attack elsewhere. Fit tactics to type of force, go to war with the army you have (etc etc).
  40. Ray Murphy Member

    One thing that could still be done in several areas, if for people to simplify technical things, so that others can be more motivated to join in. For example I have heard a lot about TOR but very little of it has sunk in yet. Sure, we can point to web pages and suggest that anyone who is interested can look it up, but many people are not interested until they can grasp the basics.

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