The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

Discussion in 'Leaks & Legal' started by Silent, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. Silent Member

    The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Not sure if this is in the rite section, but I think it it worth noting, esp. with the legal troubles some UK anons have experienced recently.

    EUR-Lex - Simple search

    The ruling linked to is from the European courts, giving the High Court of Justice, Chancery Division - United Kingdom the preliminary ruling they requested.

    The UK seek to keep Scientologist Yvonne Van Duyn from entering the UK and taking up a job as a secretary for the scifags. The interesting bits are:



    So it seems, based on this ruling, that the UK are actively trying to fight this cult.
  2. Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Very nice find, that is very quotable...
  3. kremmy Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Sounds like someone's starting to wear out their welcome...
  4. Silent Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Glad you liked it, I'll try to find more...

    Edit: Found moar, Found this: Justis - ICLR Special Issue - Van Duyn v. Home Office

    Extracted this:

    Wording of the refusal of entry into the UK given to scifag Yvonne Van Duyn:
    "You have asked for leave to enter the United Kingdom in order to take employment with the Church of Scientology but the Secretary of State considers it undesirable to give anyone leave to enter the United Kingdom on the business of or in the employment of that organisation."

    This decision was taken in accordance with the policy adopted, in 1968, by the Government of the United Kingdom which considered - and still considers - the activities of the Church of Scientology to be socially harmful.


    The British Government regards the activities of the Church of Scientology as contrary to public policy. On July 25, 1968, the Minister of Health stated in the House of Commons that the government was satisfied that scientology was socially harmful. The statement included the following remarks:

    "Scientology is a pseudo-philosophical cult.... The government are satisfied having reviewed all the available evidence that scientology is socially harmful. It alienates members of families from each other and attributes squalid and disgraceful motives to all who oppose it; its authoritarian principles and practice are a potential menace to the personality and well being of those so deluded as to become its followers; above all its methods can be a serious danger to the health of those who submit to them. There is evidence that children are now being indoctrinated. There is no power under existing law to prohibit the practice of scientology; but the government have concluded that it is so objectionable that it would be right to take all steps within their power to curb its growth.... Foreign nationals come here to study scientology and to work at the so-called 'college' in East Grinstead. The government can prevent this under existing law... and have decided to do so. The following steps are being taken with immediate effect... (e) Work permits and employment vouchers will not be issued to foreign nationals... for work at a scientology establishment."
  5. anon5712 Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Is this the brits' polite way of saying "god we wish we could flog these people but it's 2008 and the public won't be happy"?
  6. Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    No, when thats the case we accuse them of being BNP

    With this, its more like "gosh darn, we're far too PC to say a religion is naughty"
  7. anonchalant Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    someone, quickly sum up the UK legal system in 2 paragraphs or less!!!

    what kind of authority are we looking at here???
  8. Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    No authority, basically - UK did not want a European scientologist to come to UK to work on the grounds that they considered scifaggery "socially harmful" - the high court of the EU accepted this. Its basically a case of EU respects the wishes of the UK legal system and doesnt bitch slap us like they normally do
  9. bloccz Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    its worth mentioning this ruling was in 1974, strange how cos is still allowed to operate in this country considering more action was taken against them in the courts decades ago than today.
  10. iratus Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    This is a good read for UK government stance on the Scilions.

    BBC NEWS | UK | UK officials feared church 'evil'

    Particually liked this

    "Elsewhere in the files another document said the church was "an organisation designed to make money, and perhaps also gain power".

    It said the church alienated young people from their families "obtaining large sums of money for its courses on the strength of wild claims that they can cure all sorts of physical and mental ills"."

    They had it right 30 years ago, sometimes we just go backwards!

    The reason the entry ban was lifted was due to EU law, it is a seminal EU law case involving the rights of the State in implimenting EU law.
  11. Silent Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Well the case in question, the one i posted, agreed that the UK where allowed to deny her entry into the UK due to her connection with scientology.

    The ruling was based on the EU's freedom to travel in order to work in another EU country, and this article remains the same to this day.

    So what EU law are you referring to, iratus?
  12. auchraw Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Only a pity this judgment goes back to 1974. An important point is that NOTHING HAS CHANGED: Co$ can change its name and its shape and pretend to be a church but it cannot change what it does, and never has. So this creates a legal precedent in the UK and one which may apply to other countries in Europe.
  13. brisanonb Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    It is the government's policy that Scientology is harmful.

    Beauracrats can use the government's policy on something to colour a decision. Government positions/policy are justifiable/legally defensible reasons for making administrative decisions. An administrative decision is not a binding decision on anybody, but this review says that the decision was A-OK, paving the way for similar decisions if the beauracrats see fit.
  14. martinpoulter Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    In the early Seventies the UK had a ban on foreign Scientologists entering the country. It was lifted in the Thatcher era (i.e. early 1980s).
  15. I Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'


    it may still be so, but it doesn't look like it.

    governments can change their minds you know.
  16. The_Beacon Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    True. Thirty years is a long time in politics.

    Didn't our political representatives not so long ago lift the ban on Rev. Moony entering the country, based on the defense that "he's really old now"?
  17. iratus Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    I refer to the same case which said it ok on the ground of public policy to ban foreign nationals from entering the UK .

    But in the light of a litigious church and changes in government the whole public policy issue becomes more and more tenious, so public policy becomes harder to justify and possiblly with a new Thatcher govt in 1979 irrelevent to them.
  18. musketeerwang Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    It seems to me that both Scn's right to practice their BS, and ours to protest it, have equally ill-defined status in law and in the conciousness of the authorities. Just by being here for 40 years they've gained enough status as a faith group to avoid a lot of flak, and meanwhile the right to protest has never been enshrined in law here. The EU Human Rights Act is all we got. It isn't just chanology that's testing the boundaries of this - there is a challenge now for our government to sort this out, and to sort out their current stance on Co$. Of course they'll probably fudge both issues and hope they go away/quieten down.

    ^Which is why the police often treat us as equals or even favour them over us. Modern UK society just isn't set up to tackle "socially harmful" groups of Co$'s nature. They have to really put their heads above the parapet and do something really stupid to get badly smacked down in the way we'd like to see.

    Which is where we come in, of course.
  19. Major Boyle Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    I smell new protest sign: "SOCIALLY HARMFUL CULT!"
  20. Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    my mother works in the imgration service of the home office and has basicly told me that whilst a mormon missonry (for examble) can enter the country with the intent of being a morman missionry, a member of the church of scintolgy can be denided a visa to enter the country if he or she is doing so as a scintolgyist, if that makes sence

    so, basicly, the right to deny a visa or leave to remain exists in the home office if your doing things for scitnolgy.
  21. Silent Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    This is great news, the red anonymous. I was beginning to think this was a bit irrelevant due to being old, but it seems that this stance has remained the administrative practice through all this time. Remember that even though politicians come and go, the entire administrative body is never wholly changed, and their practices will remain until changed by politicians or circumstance.

    I am not entirely sure if this is something we want to shine too much light on though, as it could force the politicians to change this practice, if the general perception of scientolology as socially harmful cult has wrongfully changed into submission.
    On the other hand, it would be the most powerful of all defences in a lot of situations.

    How could they blame us for wanting to dismantle this cult, if their own administrative practice, and their own politicians (at least back in time, but this was the minister of health no less) is based on the notion than scientology is so socially harmful that they want to go to court to keep them out of the country?

    The EU also awknowlged the fact that Scientolology can be considered socially harmful by allowing the UK to use the scientology affiliation as a reason so as to why they can be kept out.
  22. Hieronymous Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Damn, if only they'd do something about all those handjobs scientology gives the london cops
  23. Anon Y. Mouse Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

  24. vegnej Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    Is that for non EU citizens or is it for any foreign citizen coming to the UK??
  25. Silent Member

    Re: The UK classifies Co$ as 'Socially harmful'

    The ruling was solely about EU-citizens. I would like to know more about their current stance on this as well.

    If they have changed their stance on the harmfulness to society of scifaggotry, then I sure would love to hear their explanation.

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