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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. White Tara Global Moderator


    I will confess I stopped reading fairly soon after I viewed the namv fact sheet. They point out rather boldly that the CDC figures of 30000 deaths annually from the Flu are inflated by including deaths from Pnuemonia. You do know that people who die of the flu primarily die from secondary infections, namely Pnuemonia right?

    Even the CDC claims it CANT tell how many people die of Influenza so why they rant on the namv fact sheet?
    http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

    https://virus.stanford.edu/uda/
    An Influenza strain will play a part in the 'natural herd limitation' of humans again at some point, I personally wouldn't mind having a jab to try and improve my chances a bit. YMMV.
  2. BrainStorm Member

  3. RightOn Member


    but other unvaccinated kids aren't safe and I would think that people with auto immune deficiencies are not safe either.
    I stopped getting flu shots years ago. Reason being is they can't tell what particular strain of flu is going to occur that far in advance and the last shot I got, I got the flu anyways Worst one ever. So that was it for me. I stopped getting the shot and I haven't had the flu like that since. Knock on wood.
  4. John Duff Member

    24th second :D

    I like his view about oxydating stress (about 23 minutes). He says that the creation of lymphocites creates free radicals in the body (which is bad).
    What he forgets to say is that a LOT of process in our body creates free radicals (just being alive makes us produce free radicals).
    What he doesn't say either is that our body is very efficient in cleaning free radicals (less as you become older, but still great).
    What he doesn't say either (bis) is that even if the body creates too much free radicals (or if we eat too much of them), it can bear a good amount of free radicals before showing weaknesses. It can take decades before the first signs of poisoning appear (like cirrhosis with alcohol).


    Heavy metals in vaccines that causes autism is like saying that you'll get a cirrhosis if you get drunk once.
    You need a chronical exposure to heavy metals in order to get poisoned. You need to exhaust the body's resistance to these products before getting sick.

    Yeah, of course, if you get really too much at once, you can die (like alcohol).

    I remember a study that showed that if you're already being poisoned by heavy metal, a bigger dose than usual can trigger the poisoning effects.
    For example you spend 1h a day licking a bar of copper, your body's resistance to copper slowly reduces (because you body has to eliminate all this copper, and is getting exhausted).
    If, one day, you spend 12 hours licking this bar (dude you're stoopid), the unusual dose may break what remains of your defenses and symptoms will appear.

    Unfortunately, I've not seen any study that links this with vaccines and autism ("can vaccines trigger autism in previously poisonned people ?"). This would be very interesting (if someone has a link, I'll take it).
    A shortcut, one of the most dangerous things when you do science. Thanks for noticing. :)

    Technically you were affected by 2 strains of the flu : the one inside the vaccine, and the one you got after. Even though the vaccine one didn't harm you, your immune system had to deal with it. That's maybe what caused you immune system to get a little tired and got you the 2nd flu. :p

    It's a classic example of comorbidity : a disease caused (indirectly) by another disease.

    PS : I didn't get vaccinated in 15 years. Not because of autism or heavy metal poisoning, but because I didn't feel the need to artificially boost my immune system. Still got the "important" shots when I was younger (I'm weird but I'm not stupid).
  5. RightOn Member

    I don't think it was the vaccine. I didn't get the flu until months after I got the shot.
    I know it stays in your system, but I don't think it was from the shot
  6. John Duff Member

    Yeah I got a little too sure of myself about this, sorry :)
    That's what happens when you take shortcuts and generalize :rolleyes:
  7. BrainStorm Member


    You can't really compare the level of toxicity of alcohol to thimerosal.
    Mercury is one of the most toxic substances in existence.

    He talks about some studies on that video, but I haven't gone through them yet. Here is one of them:
    Autism Spectrum Disorders and Identified Toxic Land Fills: Co-Occurrence Across States:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3091342
  8. anon8109 Member

    It was a joke. I could tell because it was funny. Also, there was a smiley face in case anyone wasn't sure.
  9. failboat Member


    sauce - http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

    Keep waving that mercury bogey man at us, BrainStorm. Tell us that the sky is falling and that they're putting thimerosal in our vaccines, and our toothpaste is next. Ignore the facts at all costs!
    • Like Like x 2
  10. DeathHamster Member

    He caught it from her?

    We should vaccinate against that.
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Random guy Member


    The problem is we don't really know what autism is and how it arises. It probably has some heritable factors, but what they are and how they affect things is unknown. The same goes for the environmental factors. While the land fill - autism link seems promising, it does not tell us what the actual link is. Is it leaks from the landfills? If so, what substance or substances are we talking about here? Is it the traffic to and from the landfills? Does it have something to do whom are more likely to settle close to landfills (socio-economic statue of autism parents and property prices near landfills)?

    This is a very promising study, but it's far to early to make a call on the culprit, and it still has absolutely nothing to do with vaccines.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. DeathHamster Member

    I'm so glad that when they took thimerosal out of almost everything 15 years ago, autism rates plummeted!

    oh. wait.
    • Like Like x 5
  13. BrainStorm Member

    That's the thing, you don't have facts, you repeat empty statements from FDA.
    LOL "considered tolerable"... that cracked me up.
    Sorry but I cannot take you serious when you use the FDA as a source.
    That is why I mentioned independent studies and not studies made by an agency that stinks of conflict of interests.

    Seeking info is not fear mongering.
    Shocking Report from Medical Insiders
    http://nsnbc.me/2015/06/19/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders
  14. failboat Member

    They are facts. Statements made by the FDA are not, by default, "empty," simply because of their source. Here are 3 other sources that confirm what FDA says about thimerosal being removed from vaccines by the year 2001:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2376879/
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/93217.php
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/thimerosal_timeline.html

    If it is your contention that there is still thimerosal in vaccines in the US, then prove me and the FDA wrong, along with all these other sources. That article at the .gov website was published in the American Journal of Public Health. Link me some dox that prove my contention false if you want to convince me and others. That's the way it works around here.

    The fact is that babies and all humans breathe the air. We also eat fish. Coal contains mercury, and as we burn it, we get dosed with it from the air we breathe. Fish contain mercury, and as we eat fish, we get dosed with mercury from the fish we eat. We calculate the tolerable dose based on the best human and animal data available, and it is useful information so as to avoid exceeding or even approaching that dose in our exposure, diet, or environment - and 2.5% would hardly seem to approach the dose.

    Sorry, but I cannot take you seriously when you attempt to discredit people simply for using government sources, without doing the due diligence of verifying (or failing to verify) the claim on its merits. It's also hard to take you seriously when you can't tell the difference between a billion and a trillion, or an adjective and an adverb.

    Godforbid the government source should possibly be right. I've linked you 3 other sources that support the FDA's information I quoted above. Now it's your turn - prove me wrong, and link some dox, Mr. BS

    Are you the ultimate arbiter of sources in the vax debate? Show me the conflict of interest for my 3 other sources, and tell me why they would all want to lie in such a consistent fashion, agreeing even about the 2001 date, for thimerosal's removal from US vaccines.

    That report has nothing about thimerosal or mercury in vaccines.

    As for independent verification of the safety of vaccines, I'll leave you with this from Scientific American:


    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-talk-about-vaccination/?page=2
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/straight-talk-about-vaccination/?page=3
    • Like Like x 2
  15. BrainStorm Member

    "I examine the origins of the thimerosal controversy and their legacy for the debate that has followed. More specifically, I explore the parallel histories of three factors that converged to create the crisis: vaccine preservatives, mercury poisoning, and autism."
    This is not a study, he examines the history..
    I have read an article about the numbers of autism cases and the removal of thimerosal. (I will try to find it)
    I only used thimerosal as an example because of past controversy, I did not say anywhere here that it is still in vaccines.
    Independent and peer review is important to validate studies and you haven't linked me one. There is a lot of documented evidence of corruption by the FDA, that is why I always hear the importance of independent and peer reviewed studies. Here is one link about FDA:
    War on Health: The FDA's Cult of Tyranny - http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/08/18/war-on-health.aspx


    Where is the study confirming what is a tolerable exposure or the damages of accumulation of mercury?
    I am not the only one that has to have documents. Just because mercury is in other places doesn't mean it's fine to add it to other stuff.

    Did you verify my sources? I see no comment on does links from you... It goes both ways my friend.
    I know you LOVE personal attacks, and for awhile you wanted to prove to some that I was a troll.. sorry to disappoint.
    Again, I did not claim that thimerosal is still in vaccines, please take some time to read through the info posted. You want me to comment on FDA but you said nothing about the sources posted above.
    No it doesn't, never said it was. It's about unreliable or false studies, I recommend reading it if you are in fact interested in the subject.

    The writers of this "scientific" article are not doctors, therefore they are not qualified to debunk anything on the subject, plus, they don't share any links to what they say.

    There is no problem in being proven wrong I like debate, even if you feel the need to try to insult.
    What we might agree is that there is no study accepted by the majority of doctors.

    If you find a study that is valid and trustworthy, please share.
  16. White Tara Global Moderator

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  17. John Duff Member

    BTW : with researchs starting (2012, maybe before) to link autism with brain blood vessels inflammation, we could theorize that ne number 1 cause of autism is stress (cause stress leads to inflammations).

    So take some glutathione supplements (used by the body to eliminate mercury, lead and cadmium) and chill.
    The genetic factor of autism may be a deficiency in the production of glutathione.

    Unfortunately, most of the studies I found are based on reduced samples (15-20 subjects, it's hard to find a cheap autist brain to play with), so I won't put any link.
    Search for "autism", "oxydative stress", "glutathione".

    EDIT : OP wants sources ;)
    http://www.pathophysiologyjournal.com/article/S0928-4680(06)00053-8/fulltext
    • Like Like x 1
  18. White Tara Global Moderator

    Sorry but theories without supporting evidence from reasonable science based sources? This is not quality wwp debating. As op I started this thread to discuss how rabidly fundementalist some anti vaxers were becoming. Its now so far off track and so deep into speculation that it is fast becoming domeworthy.
    • Like Like x 3
  19. BrainStorm Member

    Where is the speculation besides of what Duff posted before?
    I think we are still on topic(Big Pharma), unless you only want one sided discussion.
  20. White Tara Global Moderator


    The article itself was the point of this thread.

    But if you wish to talk about one sided conversations, have you thought about why the namv would lie and say the CDC puts the death figure at 30000 when the CDC doesnt. Why also would the NAMV maintain that there is something wrong with including pneumonia in any statistics when in fact thats what carries most flu sufferers off? Whats in it for them? Can they be trusted as a source at all?
    • Like Like x 1
  21. ravenanon Member

  22. ravenanon Member

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  23. White Tara Global Moderator

    OMG shaken babies are shaken because of vaccines, I thought nobody could be that stupid. :(
    • Like Like x 3
  24. BrainStorm Member


    Yea to be honest I don't know if NAMV is a good source, that is why I was asking for opinions.
    It is a neutral question, I did not take sides there.
  25. John Duff Member

    From all these derpy derps, it looks like anti-vax, homophobia and racism often appear together (and blue babies, but I don't see any explanations).

    So ... could it be this ? Vaccines ... take away homophobia and rasicm from our brain ? This is a massive brainwash.
    OMG stop the vaccines ! If we didn't get vaccinated, we would all like to live in a hetero, white world, like every intelligent and normal person would.
    Please, stop poisoning us with peaceful ideas ! :D

    5fda31f0b1c754321925c06f758c93ff.jpg


    EDIT : just found a step-by-step guide to anti-vaxxer http://skeweddistribution.com/2012/...e-for-an-anti-vax-invasion-of-a-pro-vax-page/
    • Like Like x 2
  26. White Tara Global Moderator

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  27. The writers of that article in Scientific American ARE DOCTORS, you stupid faggot. Did you bother reading it? They are a pediatrician and an epidemiologist.
  28. BrainStorm Member

    lol no need to hide behind a trash account, are you afraid to show how immature you are?
    Normally when they write an article, doctors have "Dr." in front of their name or "MD" after the name.. it's weird that they don't.
    There is no info about them on that article and no links to confirm what they say.
    ps. Insults were a bit weak, please try harder
  29. This is at the very end of the article, which you obviously still haven't read - if you had gotten to the end of it, you'd have seen the part about the authors.



    Here's some links that confirm what they say about federal monitoring that is independent of vaccine manufacturer funding--
    Long-term, permanent vaccine safety and monitoring programs -
    Vaccine Safety Datalink Project
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Activities/VSD.html
    Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting
    http://vaers.hhs.gov/index

    Vaccine safety research -
    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=vaccine safety&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5

    Also, I found this video of you:
  30. I guess you didn't.

    You only said that you can't take me "serious" when I used the FDA as a source - but now that you've conceded that the FDA gave a factual, and not an "empty" statement re: thimerosal, you've only demonstrated your own blindness to facts and your willingness to undermine people based solely on their sources and not the factual nature of the statements made by those sources.

    You didn't bother to confirm the claim; you just attacked me on my source, who happened to be right.

    ...And you wonder why people call you names and accuse you of trolling.
  31. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Antivax derp
    Fake-scare-ad.jpg
    You can tell it's serious because their logo has a lunch box dick.
    • Like Like x 3
  32. DeathHamster Member

    bwTRZ.jpg

    Act like Scientology, get treated like Scientology.
    • Like Like x 6
  33. BrainStorm Member

    You are right, I didn't check at the end lol, my bad. But where are the studies?
    Independent?? It's from the CDC!! lol clearly you don't know much about the corruption/conflict of interest of the CDC and FDA.
    I conceded that the FDA gave factual statements and I attacked you? lol poor failboat, were did I atack you?
    Did you even check the links I posted? Or my blindness and willingness is preventing you from doing so?

    I would check the CDC and FDA history before using it as a source.
    And thanks for the family guy lolz :D
  34. DeathHamster Member

    I think we're at Step 8. Become The Victim.
    • Like Like x 4
  35. DeathHamster Member

    May 19, 2015
    • Like Like x 4
  36. DeathHamster Member

    They're going Full Derp. Never go Full Derp.
    • Like Like x 5
  37. Random guy Member


    bwHjUnz.jpg
    • Like Like x 3
  38. Disambiguation Global Moderator

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  39. ravenanon Member

    Anyone write up an article comparing the anti vax logic fails with that of the cults insanity on psychology ?

    I'm just sure somewhere some anti vax wants to yell at Matt Lauer .
    • Like Like x 1

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