Discussion in 'Projects' started by Meganova, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Meganova Member


    The whole point of Anonymous, if I remember correctly, is to create a leaderless movement in which any individual can independantly direct their outrage against the Church of Scientology.

    I'm just an average guy. I work, I go to school, I fuck my girlfriend on the weekend, I don't know shit about hacking or computers, I dress normally and I don't hide my face. And I think that is the reason why some of you think I'm a Scientology spy.

    I think many of you have grown so paranoid about the CoS retaliation that you suspect any who doesn't wear a suit or a stupid V for Vendetta mask of being not one of you.

    Well that's right. I am NOT one of you, because there isn't supposed to be a "you." There isn't supposed to be a group where you try to squeeze someone out for the slighest suspicion (and by the way, your suspicion is BASELESS!)

    Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia collapsed because internal paranoia drove out or killed off most who actually could have been of benefit to them. Fear and paranoia was a cause for abuse inside the CoS that drove many out. Don't let it happen to you.

    I'm not one of you. I'm just me. I'm going to continue to go to anti-CoS protests, I'm going to continue to hold up signs, hand out fliers and so on. Just don't be a fucking asshole to me or my friends.
  2. Consensus Member

    You're right. Paranoia is going to hurt us.

    And you're also right that we're not an organization with a hierarchy and a platform, so, no, I don't have the right to tell any other Anon 'you're doing it wrong.'

    Nonetheless, there is an overall message, and an overall goal we wish to achieve. If, for example, I went to an Anon protest with a sign that read 'Catholicism is a cult!', I think you would feel I was off message. Off message from what?! We're not an organization! At least, that's the logical implication of your argument...

    I don't think you'd be out of place in trying to convince me to change signs. You would be out of place in forcing me to leave, or insisting that I *must* be a scientology plant (as opposed to simply a stupid person). But to say 'Hey man, that's not what we're supposed to be about' isn't innacurate, even if we don't have a leader or formal hierarchy.

    Similarly, if I showed up with a hammer and made it a point to smash out every headlight on the street, it would not be inappropriate for the rest of you to say 'He's not with us, he's NOT anon!'

    As such, there are signs that are better than others, and there are behaviors that are better than others. Our goal, in giving feedback, is to improve our behavior to be more effective at achieving our goals. We should celebrate the diversity of our opinions, but we must also be working towards consensus.

    So there's three things that get people suspicious. First, promoting something off-message. Of course, it's hard to tell the difference between someone trying to pull us off-message and someone trying to refine our message to something more effective. So that's not conclusive evidence of someone being a scientologist.

    Secondly, promoting or exhibiting behavior that alienates our audience or paints the group in a negative light. Promoting such behavior definitely makes us think a person is either 1) a plant or 2) an idiot.

    But the appropriate thing to do with people doing either is to discuss it with them; to explain why you think what they're doing is hurting our cause. Which leads to the third form of suspicious behavior:

    Refusal to discuss things reasonably. If you won't listen to arguments against your position, if you're overly agressive, if you 'attack and never defend', it makes people suspicious. If your overall behavior on the boards, particularly your reaction to criticism, is divisive in nature, it makes people suspicious. The number one thing both trolls and plants want is to divide us against ourselves. Thus, divisive behavior is the most suspicious behavior.
  3. MarkSherman Member

    What the fuck is this guy talking about?

    Could you have included some context?
  4. I personally have been lobbying within the moderators to cut down on the finger-pointing. The reason we don't want Co$ plants on the forum is in the worry that they will incite illegal activities, and anyone, plant or not, trying to do so will be warned and then banned as per the rules.

    IMO, the witchhunt should stop.
  5. Amomynous Member

    I don't wear a suit. Never have in my life.

    I also don't have a mask. You're completely missing the point.

    There is no "point" to Anonymous. Nobody's "trying to create" anything.

    Anonymous is simply a force of nature. It exists beyond what any single individual or group of individuals may want to make of it.

    You're perfectly correct in your statement that paranoia is an issue, but if you thinks it can destroy Anonymous, you clearly don't understand Anonymous. But that's perfectly understandable, as you clearly state that you are not "part of Anonymous".

    We welcome you to join us in protesting the CoS, whatever label you may want to attribute to yourself (or not).

    And I apologize if you feel personally threatened/offended by our "harsh" reaction to your posts, but...

    Actually, no, I don't apologize.

    This is how Anonymous works, and this is why paranoia will not destroy Anonymous.

    I fully agree that some/many might react defensively to suspicious behavior (I include myself in that lumping), but I think that's healthy, to a degree.

    Anonymous challenges Anonymous. This is a strength. This keeps us strong.

    All ideas are to be challenged. Anonymous doesn't attack people, Anonymous attacks concepts.

    Well, some Anonymous attack people, but they shouldn't. They'll learn.

    I suggest you read this thread (We're Being Infiltrated[/url:33u89bkh]), as it extensively deals with the issue of infiltrators (and, as such, paranoia). Many very good points are made.

    Personally, I find that this quote sums it all up best:

  6. Ash Member

    I fear we're in danger of disappearing up our own arses here. Just get out there, don't break the law, get the job done and get home safely. What more is there to discuss.

    Personally I'd rather be a little too paranoid than risk too little paranoia.
  7. Anonymous29 Member

    As long as the message comes across. If you don't want to wear something, go ahead. Some people may feel a greater security in that, and that's totally to them.
  8. I don't trust any of you.

    I don't need to, to be effective.

    I just need to focus on telling other people about the tax free Xenu slave schools.

    You do what you want. You can help me do the above, or not.

    Hope you keep helping.
  9. look, you can see all the forums as a guest, and a sci plant wont magically turn you all into space aliens just by being on the board

    I like clam soup as much as the next guy but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if they actually register; they need to influence our actions by suggesting we threaten to bomb churches or whatever and that shit will get called out as stupid and that will be that

    there's no difference between a cos plant and a really stupid or militant anon so people shouldn't be too worried about trying to sort the former from the latter, just diss their ideas and move on.

    I fuck your girlfriend during the week while you are at school, and from our "pillow talk" I have determined that you are NOT a spy.

    PS she said you are "below average"

    Forgetting all that for a moment, Anonymous is an cooperative idea farm.
    It doesn't matter who brings the idea to the farm.
    The "good" ideas get fed and groomed and nurtured.
    The "bad" ideas get slaughtered.

    Many of the ideas I brought were killed within seconds. A very few were incorporated into the idea herd. I don't let it get me down or go to my head or either way.
  11. AnonNow Member

    Unhelpful talk is unhelpful
  12. Fanboy TGAT Member

    The way I put it on another forum:

    If your ideas are bad, then it doesn't mean we're being paranoid or that you're an OSA plant; it means that the antibodies of good ideas are eliminating the virus of your bad idea.
  13. Diebeetus Member


    The reason we think you are a Sciplant is because you're making threads like this one, with vague and misleading arguments that run the risk specifically of helping to weaken the resolve of some of our members or break us apart, in theory.

    I concur with Full Metal Psychiatrist, though, in that it doesn't matter whether or not you're a sciplant. Your posts are looking to be rather nonconstructive and so, sciplant or not, it is our duty to ignore you. Maybe make a few clam-based jeers and leave it at that.

    I have had the opportunity to become deeply involved in debates in this board that don't focus on the topic of the protest, but I have not. I entered, said my two cents, made a comment about lack of topicality, and left again.
  14. Consensus Member

    I'd just like to say, your lobbying swayed me.

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