Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Anonymous, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    So I just found out that the "Idle Org" in Sandy Springs, Georgia (suburb of Atlanta) is petitioning for a rezoning "to maintain the existing structure and to allow for a church, with concurrent variances."

    The initial Community Zoning Info Meeting is TOMORROW (3-24-2009) and obviously we need some Anons in the audience to keep an eye on what's going on. (Planning Commission Meeting is 5/21/2009 and Mayor and Council meetings are 6/16/2009.)

    Are there any Anons in the area who can attend? Any suggestions from Anons in other areas as to what issues we should raise and how to raise them without getting tagged with the "hate group" bullshit.

    We've got 28 hours before the meeting starts, Anons. Halp!
  2. point out that it is really a business and should pay property taxes, especially in this economy

    ask if coerced abortions are performed onsite and under proper medical care

    ask who is holding the passports of the slaves working there on religious visas
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Hmmm . . . I don't know if I want to be throwing verbal molotovs that early in the game. Might be better to have something pithy that's relevant to the interests of the Sandy Springs zoning committee.

    You know, something like "What about the accusations that it's not a church but a cult?"

    Any other suggestions?
  4. fotoanon Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    What will change in the area if they get their zoning?
    If it were anything relating to traffic, or their ability to demand things they currently cannot...I would bring those up.
  5. Herro Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    talk to the chicago anons. they recently attended a similar proceeding.
  6. anon555 Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    what is it currently zoned as? why does that need to change? what is it that the ideal org wants to do that it cant do now? and wth are 'concurrent variances'?
  7. Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Please provide a link to where you found out above this.

    The Ideal org has never been occupied since its purchase several years ago. Will the OP of this thread be attending the city council meeting?
  8. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Let me see if this works . . . pic to be attached.


    (Sorry so huge--didn't have time to fix.)

    I'll be there. Still figuring out what to do or say, but I'll definitely be taking notes.

    There were signs of life on Saturday night. Lights on, people about, looked like some kind of social event.
  9. Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Great idea!

    quote DM's recent speach about [ how many ??? ] new members expected due to the idle org drive, divide by idle orgs in the galaxy, and thats how many more cars will be coming and going if this zoning is allowed.

    then whine: "can our nay bore hood street handle that many cars, scilons should pay to widen, pothole,crosswalk, upgrade signals, etc" ?
  10. User Name Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Also bring up the Super Power building in Clearwater and how it has stood incomplete for however many years they've been collecting fines now, and Big Blue in LA if it still has a massive hole in the front of it.

    Basically point out that they have a number of incomplete contruction projects currently on-going which have not been finished for years, and with no timeline as to when they will be done (you can even quote the SP Times article about Fort Harrison which came out today).

    That's not directly related to zoning but it will show that when they do get around to constructing their "church" that it may remain in construction limbo for years making the rest of the neighbourhood look like shit just by being near it.

    Unless they can set clear timetables as to when the "church" will be constructed by then the re-zoning shouldn't happen because of the potential damage to the community property values by having an unfinished project sitting there for a decade.
  11. fitch2000 Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I would def spread some sekrit info at the meeting. Brochures, leaflets, with hard facts. Op. Snow White, Op Freak Out, Op etc etc.

    I would also ask if the scientologists will be allowed to harrass citizens of your city with their stress tests and personality tests.

    Maybe bring up how many cameras they have all over the place in clearwater, fl and hemet, ca. and Las angeles, ca.

    Spread spread spread info like you would spread some herpes simplex!

    The more informed you make your neighbors the better your chances.
  12. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I don't know if I want to go full-bore OMG!CULT!RAWR! but as an actual resident of the neighborhood, I could definitely put a NIMBY spin on it. The building does have a parking lot, but it wouldn't hurt to raise the questions of overflow traffic. Might even compare it to the megachurch (of the Christian variety) that used to be down the street and what a mess that was every Sunday when it was still extant.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    OK .. first .. when you speak, never -- not ONCE -- call them a church. Enterprise and cult work VERY well. Or simply leave out the title.

    from here: L. Ron Hubbard Quotes - Spiritual Quotes

    If the government were to knock out the control point of Scientology they would reap the whirlwinds.
    L. Ron Hubbard Quote - Government - Opinionated - Scientology - Warning Quotes


    from Scientology expert on 'Taking over our government'

    The goal of the department [of governmental affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by a high level ability to control and in its absence by a low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies. --L. Ron Hubbard, evidence in Church of Spiritual Technology v. U.S., November 22, 1989.


    LOTS of quotes by judges here:

    I'd suggest focusing on the ones stating they are not a religion, btu a business (tax exemption), their moral issues, and the deleterious nature to society. Cite as many American judges as possible, since it basically sets a legal precedence in a sense (I know it's not exactly it but I'm short on words) about decisions about the cult.


    Harassment, blackmail, etc .. Fair Game is a reason to keep them out. You don't want that in your town, allowed by your local government.

    "Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her crimes, known and unknown. "

    Mention the trail of bodies

    /r/ LRH quote abotu taking over the government


    "Make money. Make more money. Make other people make money. "


    YouTube - The Self-affirmations of L. Ron Hubbard <== lots of quotes here. But maybe find a better source?

    Use as many racist and sexist quotes of his to show just how bad Scientology is.


    NEVER forget Snow White!
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    And before I forget ...

    Didn't some cell in Europe post about success stopping the zoning change for their idle org? I'm trying to find it, but help would be appreciated.
  15. ethercat Member

  16. Anonymous Member

  17. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    VERY helpful links, Ether. Looks like the emphasis should be on what the actual plan is and how it's going to affect the neighborhood.

    I'd post the questions I have in mind, but I don't want to give the Scienos time to prepare for them.
  18. Anonymous Member

  19. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I'd harpoon 'em after the initial planning meeting when they present the proposal, so we know what we're up against.
  20. Anonymous Member

  21. SomeRandGuy Member

  22. tazor Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    You may want to mention how they love to block off L. Ron Hubbard Way all the time. They won't let the non-scilons who live in the neighborhood through the barricades, etc.

    They don't make good neighbors at all. Remember the "Bad People" lady?
  23. ravenanon Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    bump for justice and help
  24. Anonymous Member

  25. ravenanon Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Not in my SS - Topix

    The first thread that was posted was erased. give this one some love
  26. i'mglib Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?


    I have no idea what O-I conditional versus O-I is, but whatever it is DO NOT WANT.

    Variances have to be approved before anything can be built, so that's where you start.

    It says something about wanting to rezone. NO NO NO NO NO!
  27. Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    anonymously tip off Operation Rescue that scilons will perform abortions at this site if they get the variance

    doesn't have to be true or even credible, just has to get angry people from all corners at the zoning board
  28. mefree Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

  29. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Mmmmmmm NO. I'm not sure where you're dialing from, but we do things a little differently here in the ATL. We try not to antagonize the authorities as a general rule, so the Scienos wind up looking stupid when they're wittering about EVOL TERRORISTZ ZOMG!

    We stick to the facts. The facts are more than enough.
  30. i'mglib Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I agree with ultrapoet--stick to the facts. Probably they have an existing building that doesn't conform to current rules for the property zoning. I am guessing it's an old building, and if it burned down it couldn't be rebuilt the way it is, because it doesn't conform to new rules. This could be, for instance, the setback. Maybe it needs to be 50 or 100 feet today, but it's only 40 ft set back. So they want to keep the 40 feet, even though that's not legal today.

    So, if this were the case, you'd argue that 40 fee is unsafe, it's too close to the road, it doesn't allow for landscaping consistent with the area, doesn't allow for parking, etc.

    I think if someone goes, they'll have to find out what the exact variance they are asking for is, and then wing it. If it's too tall, it mars the sky line, etc.
  31. ultrapoet Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I'm not entirely sure what kind of variance they're asking for. That will definitely be the first question on my mind.
  32. qwertyuiop1 Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Why is it being rezoned? whats it zoned for. A church group i was involved with (not scino) was denied a similar rezoning because the neighbors signed a petition as they didnt want a "store front" church. it was thought of as innappropriate for some reason. might be relevant.
  33. lothar Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Listen up.. there are two ways to go about this.

    (1) be a moron and act like egofags who start yelling about cult and crazy shit, oh, yeah and wear a mask
    (2) be an adult, treat this like a boring zoning meeting it is, only mention RELEVANT things

    First of all, re-zoning is often quite routine and they are asking to go from O-I (Office/Institutional) conditional to full O-I with full variances.

    The real key here is what variances was that plot originally given, and what new variances are they asking for.

    NOTE: any moronic behavior and you will be booted. These people don't like sitting around at 7pm monthly meetings that drag on.

    Also, note this from Sandy Springs website:
    Sandy Springs Ord. Sec. 2-60. Public participation.
    Georgia code zoning laws here
    The city appears to have met all notification requirements.

    The only thing that might be usable is:
    At any rate the drug treatment aspect is useless as they can say they have no plans for on-site treatment. Which is probably true. So I'm sure Narconon is quite hidden from the activities of an Ideal Org.

    Sandy Springs zoning ordiances are here:
    Sandy Springs zoning (pdfs)

    There might be something interesting in here:
    Article XXVII. Hearing Procedures OR
     Article XXVIII. Rezoning & Other Amendment Procedures (amended 11.20.07)


    Now, what can you bring up in a zoning meeting? Well you have to point out issues important to the community. Seeing as there are doubtful any neighbors who will be disturbed by the traffic or noise (see the surrounding businesses).

    Here are the only issues they will care about:

    * Whether the proposed use is consistent with the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and/or Economic Development Revitalization plans adopted by the City Council;
    (this seems like you could make an argument about losing tax revenue, putting a non-profit self-help bookstore in that neighborhood is good idea? ... It probably does fit in with CLUP because it was previous a funeral home ??) The future land use for this location is "Living-Working Community" most other current churches are land use of "Neighborhood".
    I will mention if you look at the Future Land Use map, there are no other churches anywhere near this location. And only one school. I'm not sure if that helps/hurts in zoning mind.)

    * The effect of the proposed use on traffic flow, vehicular and pedestrian, along adjoining streets;
    (probably non-issue as it is major traffic'd road. Unless you can make an argument for foot traffic, like for a Scilon Academy, I think this is a non-issue)

    * The location and number of off-street parking spaces;
    (property looks like they have enough spots. Looks to me like well over 60 spots, maybe more with some creative line painting. The only thing you can use here is use their fake numbers against them. If you pretend is a "church" and people come for "services" and their goal is 1,000 people servicing Atlanta... then little town might be nervous.)

    * Hours and manner of operation;
    (might be able to bring this up)

    * Ingress and egress to the property.
    (non-issue at that location it appears, with two roads and stoplight for traffic)

    Regarding variances -- we don't know what they are requesting.
    Probably the usual stuff to meet compliance with current set-back laws. It's doubtful you'll know the variance laws well enough to harpoon this, but read through them and see if something sticks out. Building looks short enough and set-back far enough. It is most likely for parking, etc.

    But they will be adding to this as need to pass zoning:
    (I think that property is in compliance with all of these)

    My advice...

    Zoning isn't that big of a deal, and there are more influential meetings upcoming with planning commission and Mayor's group. Yes, a church bought a property and wants to zone for church. So what? Also, the Future Land Use, previous zoning are already mostly in compliance.

    Issues you can harpoon..
    - First, get hands on Ideal Org literature so you aren't speaking without proof.
    - Tell them how many people they pretend they will be getting into the org, if they plan on a 1,000 then they have parking & traffic issues.
    - The Ideal Org also advertises a future Day Care??! This might be an issue, but allowed under O-I. Does the property meet additional Permit issues for Day Care? I think they do, except Day Card not allowed on Sat. & Sun.
    - Most Ideal Orgs want to open an Academy. Are they aware of plans for schooling on site?
    - They plan on therapeutic spas / saunas. (probably a non-issue)
    - I haven't looked into parking lot requirements, usually they get variances for this. If they plan of a chapel for hundreds, it might be an issue.

    Future stuff

    Planning Commission meeting is where things can go bad for scilons. Need to inform Planning Commission of planned uses. Also can get them blueprints from other Ideal Orgs proving what they are planning to put in. Make aware of tiny study rooms, fire code violations, un-safe saunas and crap.

    Just for reference this is City Council District 5 Tiberio “Tibby” DeJulio
  34. lothar Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    tl;dr don't be a faggot
  35. lothar Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    If I had to guess at required variances:
    (but against, this was already zoned O-I so it isn't like going from Residential to O-I)

    Anyways, I think they meet all of these, or previously granted variances.
  36. terryeo2 Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    ^^^What she said^^^
  37. Lorelei Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Flyering nearby apartments / condos / businesses with a non-inflamatory flier about documented abuses and bad behavior of the church and links to non-moonbatty articles and info about countries that have sued / banned them, the front groups they hide behind, deaths at Narconon and so on might be in order.

    I'd strongly stress that the actual religious practices are not part of the problem.

    Lastly, there are a LOT of threads on WWP about how the Cos takes gov't handouts and doesn't pay taxes, operates like a MLM pyramid / Amway scam, and often leaves buildings in poor repair and do not pay bills, just skipping out in the dead of night (like Second Chance in AZ).

    Pictures of Narconon looking like shit (or the abandoned Las Vegas org, or Big Blue itself) can be added. Do residents want that nice property to be equally neglected?

    Note also the noise (and illegal road closures and harassment and intimidation and trespassing) LRH Way residents complain about, and how people will be videotaped and photographed whenever they pass by, and people innocently parking in the lot may have their tags traced.

    Discussing how Scilons invade Clearwater under false ID and pretenses may or may not be relevant, but their neighbors hating them and wanting them out certainly is.

    It may or may not be relevant to link to, but mentioning their opposition to psychiatry and its role in the deaths of Lisa McPherson, Ellie Perkins, Uwe Stukenbrock [sic], etc, may not be inappropriate.

    All good points to put on a flier written in a quiet, factual, "here's the facts" kind of manner.

    I'd look at the "why you decided to protest" thread on WWP, if it still exists, and pick the top ten reasons cited, and adapt those reasons when making the flier / booklet.

    You can choose to identify the flier as Anon-sponsored or not; that is a decision that depends on what everyone thinks is most appropriate. If unattributed, info links to major news outlets / magazines / online websites is recommended.
  38. terryeo2 Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    I think a general flyer-drop to let the neighbors know just who is moving into their town is a great idea!
  39. lothar Member

    Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    Make sure you do read:


    I am not sure if this is basically the only real meeting for the rezoning. The Planning Commission/Mayor meeting might be rubber stamps after zoning approval.

    You'll want to mention economic impact, how many other these similar Ideal Orgs sit vacant. They have owned the property for a year and are just now getting zoning approval. Where are they going to get money for construction?

    If they claim to support the number of customers they say, how will traffic / parking handle it. If they don't have those numbers then this will be a vacant eye sore.
  40. Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do?

    do their classes constitute "private school" ?

    will they do purification rundown here, and does the alleged "detox" component constitute drug rehab?

    ask enough questions so that the zoning board postpones a decision pending clarification & elaboration from the cult

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