Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Well done all. It was impressive to see how quickly people got together on this and took action. Bravo to Anons involved and those neighborhood ladies.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Ok, again the Ideal Org sauna is for sane, good standing scilons to do purif rundowns. The Narconon ones are a treatment facility for drug addicts. If you are generally asking if saunas in general are dangerous and result in ambulances, I doubt it.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? so the Idle Org suana and the narCONon sauna have a different guest list "how will the activities differ and will there be ambulances" If the local ladies ask, the cartoony will be stumped, the zoning board will postpone a decision. Next month the scientologists will have to go on record identifying enoough differences to convince the zoning board that this is OK at this location. Spread out lots of questions over a period of months - carefully worded to be of neighborhood interest of course - and this could drag on for a long tiem! even though rivercide 884 aint zoning, notice how it gets talked about at every meeting for months and months
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? R there docs or pics that we can over-analyze and come up with tinfoily plots? Or perhaps just use to come up with good strategy?
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Narconon is considered by COS to be a "secular" activity and is run by other corporations. Since COS spends so much time trying to separate their "religious" from their "secular" activities with separate corporations and licenses "downlines", they would never share the same building. The Purification Rundown is one of the earliest steps on The Bridge to Total Freedom. The COS Purification Rundown is almost identical to the Narconon's sauna program. Narconon combines several Scientology courses and actions to make up a "package" which they call the "Narconon program". The program is described on this webpage: Effective Drug Rehab - Narconon Does Work Each one of the seven "courses" described for the program are also available to anyone going to a "Church" of Scientology.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? The COS Purification Rundown is almost identical to the Narconon's sauna program. this is why the condo association wants to know if the new neighbors will be having latenight ambulances for heat stroke and niacin overdose victims. but they have to ask dumbly at first so the cartoony gets stumped and the zoning board postpones thier decision.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Ok, enough of the pretend abuses you've heard of from OG story tellers. Do you think there are ambulances dispatched to people in saunas? Do you think there are late night sauna sessions for Purif rundowns? Have you ever been to an org to see the goings on? Stop with useless third grade type arguments. It's questionable enough that a "church" has a sauna. It is probably of interest to city planners and now they know. Useless ranting over "ambulances" is just dumb. Do you have any proof this has ever happened? And if you can't understand why a drug rehab center is different than an Org that sells courses. THere is plenty for the neighbors to be concerned about without making up stuff that doesn't happen and won't happen.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? I'll get the rest up later. Hopefully Gumby was the Good Stuff Poor Quality Video of the meeting is here: killed off video cause it sucked so bad. Gumby's stuff up soon.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Lothar they also plan on having the sauna in there and the customary bookstore. How will this play into the rezoning only part of the building as a church. Also, I'm going to try to get all the info they have filled out either today or tomorrow
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? And remember--we had to sit through all of that without a break! Thank you so much for recording that. You da man.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? so much better than what I shot. Even with FYI trying to make it better
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? I hope this gains attention and interest with the local citizenry.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? These look great. The neighborhood ladies were spot on. Video 2 from 7:17 to about 7:25 or so was truly inspired.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? I have cross posted all these videos to the Sandy Springs Topix site. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAdOt6IVmg&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 1-Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNAY-pPil8&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 2- Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdaoxtqs-Q&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 3- Sandy Springs GA,zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dm6lVZHx5I&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 4-Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame]
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? I love this Ideal Org scam. Almost all cities have zoning laws for Churches that takes the largest sanctuary / meeting room and that defines the number of parking spaces (Basically one car per 3.5 people). Because most churches have a handful of meetings and staff during the week and one large service in one large meeting room. Scilons love this Ideal Org zoning because they carve out a large-ish room they call a "chapel". It's just for pretend Sunday services or film / event time. So the architect just slices out in the remodel for one larger room with the size based on how many parking spots they have, and then chop the rest up into office and audit rooms and book store stuff. If they were a coffee shop they would be required to have 460 parking spots, if they were a retail book store then 230 parking spots. If they were an office bldg they would need maybe 100 depending on when they operate. 51 spots + 32 in the easement. Under church zoning they need 47 if they uses benches. Or if they have chairs/seating it allows for 178 people in their largest room. (Not counting the easement parking, which I still haven't figured that out. I don't see it on satellite view.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Great job on the video. He was pretty enturbulated. Awesome cameraman answer about doing business in Sandy Springs. Have you see the freaking sign in the middle of the public space they want to advertise on??? The city should not allow that. Go look at in Web browser and Live Maps are incompatible birdseye view. It's out there in that little penisula of land by the right turn only lane. Also, that bldg is gianormous.. and 1/3 the parking is really on Post Office property. They could cram so many people in that place. It appears the funeral home looking place next door is also vacant. Maybe they rent parking from them.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? We all know the worlds "fastest shrinking religion" will be unable to fill the parking lot once or twice a year at an idle org. We all know the there will be less than 2 late night ambulances a year for sauna heatstroke and niacin overdoses. They are still interesting for the condo ladies to ask, relevant to the zoning board, fun to see the scilons sweat on public record, and if engineered as carefully as last night ( GOOD JORB EVERYONE) impede goverment approval
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? " How much garbage/rubbish do you expect to make per week? Will the waste bins be at a the back corner of the property and screened from view per local ordinance (if any) ? We don't want a dumpster overflowing with discarded body thetans becoming a neighborhood eyesore! " ok skip the body thetans, but make them spell out *everything* about their intended land use / zoning requests. slowly. so this gets dragged out for months.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? We got them to admit on camera a book store would be in there as well as the sauna. Since it will have the books store won't that change the required parking spots? The lawyer confirmed narconon would not be there, would not confirm or denie WISE, APPLIED, etc moving over.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? A Borders with a StarBucks inside has to add all parking spaces for all uses because all parts or the building might be used simultaneously "churches" don't because they pretend that during services everybody is in the portion of the building with the largest parking requirement and nobody is in the bookstore, sauna, offices, interogation rooms, torture chambers, or any other part of the building
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Lothar. Your points are well thought out here. The legal represenative for the church of scientology of georgia inc is Mr Woodson Galloway of the law firm Dillard and Galloway. Mr Galloway is not IMO a foe. He is a hired legal representative. Mr Galloway is very good @ what he does. He has been involved in many zoning issues within the greater Atlanta Georgia area. I have to give respect where respect is due. Do i agree with his representation of C of S ? NO. Mr Galloway is a member and usher @ one of Atlanta,s largest Christian church,s. It is very hard for me to understand how an individual on sunday can be a practicing christian, then during the week represent what i as a fellow christian perceive as an evil immoral entity. That is a burden Attorney Woodson Galloway bears. Moving away from my personal beliefs here, i as a community activist need to separate my emotional response on this matter from that which will be of a benefit to the greater Sandy Springs/Atlanta community. C of S of Ga inc is within its legal bounds to utilize their building as a "Chapel". What needs to be stressed within ALL the upcoming council meetings is very simple. As per Church of Scientology,s own literature, they state as being the fastest growing religion on the planet. At this time, Attorney Woodson Galloway states that C of S is a very small religious organization and would only have a need for 83 parking spaces to utilize this 1400 square foot "Chapel". What IS NOT being addressed is the OTHER 44,600 Square feet of office space within the church of scientology's building. How will this " Fastest growing religion on the planet" provide parking for this 44,600 square feet of office space? Please be aware that this parking issue is the MAIN reason that C of S can not occupy the building @ this time.( An ordinance is already in place pertaining to the past occupant). As the Sandy Springs zoning code that is in place @ this time prohibits the use of the 46,000 sq. ft building as zoned O-I. Why? Lack of parking to support 46,000 sq ft of tenant office space. I.E... O-I Now one must ask,what plans are in place, to show the local citizens whom will be impacted by this future growth and how C of S will handle it? Neither attorney Galloway or C of S have provided any plans to support this future KSW growth. Underground parking decks? Above ground multi level parking decks? Do the local home owners want this ? Would this growth impact an already heavily congested traffic thoroughfare? Will this fit the tempo of the neighborhood. These are the angles in which we as activist must speak up about in a public forum. Leave ones personal feelings regarding C of S out of the equation. Approach this from a community growth and impact angle. Then you will have concerned local citizens on board. This will in turn reward the activist with the denial of growth the C of S seeks within your community. That is full of WIN! [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAdOt6IVmg&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 1-Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNAY-pPil8&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 2- Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjdaoxtqs-Q&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 3- Sandy Springs GA,zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dm6lVZHx5I&feature=channel_page]YouTube - 4-Sandy Springs GA, zoning meeting 3/24/09[/ame]
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? If possible, could any of you provide me with a link or for that matter an actual piece of printed material in color preferably of scientology stating " Fastest growing religion on the planet". Pooks , if you are reading this, do you have any literature along those lines? Thanks.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? The Purif is a stand-alone program that is also at the core of Narconon, Criminon, Second Chance, etc. If you go read 'narconon-exposed.org' there is a whole lot of info about the Purif. Lettuce is not considered to be toxic. However, if you were to eat your weight in lettuce all at once, there are trace elements that become poisonous. A sauna is not dangerous. However, the FDA has guidelines as to temperature and length of time. However, the Purif involves sauna sessions that are outside the FDA's recommended envelope. Moar is better, right? The Purif is simply practicing medicine without a license. They are untrained, ignorant boneheads, and the only reason we don't hear more about bad results from people undergoing it is they cover it up. They know it's bad, but it's one of the few things they have to sell. I think the sauna/medical thing should be addressed. While it's true that "religious rituals" are pretty much uncontrolled, unless you're sacrificing virgins or something, the Purification Rundown is potentially dangerous and I can't think that neighbors would want that in their 'hood.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Two. What Is Scientology? Fundamentals of a Fast-Growing Religion - Church of Scientology presents Freedom Magazine - Fort Harrison 75th Anniversary Edition http://www.whatisscientology.org/html/Part11/Chp34/index.html
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Thank you 33755. The more literature like this i can get into the hands of the city of Sandy Springs councilmen and zoning officals the better. It is NOT my intention to berate the religious practices. It is my intention to show the greater community the possible impact this issue would have on their community and property values. Once the local citizenry is educated on the subject of the abusive practices inherent within scientology, then those citizens can express their opinion whether or not an Ideal org or scientology church is healthy or good for the community.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Thanks again for the video record of the proceedings. I love it that non-Anons are getting all riled up. Also, Neighbor Lady has a point. That intersection / area is a pain in the butt to navigate even when traffic isn't too heavy. My suspicion is that the cult will figure out to the last inch how many feet to claim their "chapel" area is, WRT existing parking spots, and promptly work to revise their petition. Honestly, though, it is a weird quirk of human nature that I personally don't understand that some people insist on staying where they aren't wanted, be it a disliked tard on a message board online, or a cult invading a neighborhood. Logic would seem to demand that the unwanted person or group would take public opinion and dislike as a hint that perhaps they should go away. Then again, I haven't really had a problem with being disliked or unwanted to that degree. I still suspect I'd get a hint and bugger off, as my time is valuable and I prefer to contribute where my contributions are, if not desired, at least accepted. /digression As far as their "religious beliefs," I don't see why that has to be an issue at all. The bottom line is whether the neighborhood can handle the increased traffic, and how the neighbors will feel with a group of that size being present there from 9 to 9 every damn day. If it is deemed relevant, I think the neighbors might be interested, even if the council isn't (thus it should be shared elsewhere w/ them) that the cult is infamous for keeping buildings in shitty condition (insert pix of Narconon looking scuzzy here, ditto dozens of other Scihives), they hold loud events without any regard for the neighbors, and, in some areas, they invade neighbor's privacy by going on their property and asking for IDs (LRH Way), and we all know how they constantly have cameras going. As a multi-use facility, they are going to have potential bookstore, childcare, sauna / vitamin store and counseling traffic. Sounds like a mini-mall of cult crap. Yay.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? But you see, everyone has a reactive mind and it is simply THAT that is against Scientology. So if they come in the area and get some new scio recruits and auditing takes place, and reactive minds start disappearing, then the general tone level of the area will go up and up and up, and then people will stop being against them. /sarcasm
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Anonymous, you are scaring me. That explanation almost made sense, in a bugfuck crazy Scitardy kind of way. Stop that.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? hopefully the copies of what was submitted will be up tomorrow or Saturday
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Meeting Info up date Part 1 of the paperwork sci submitted: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service Part 2 of the paperwork sc submitted: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service Unfortunately, some of the copies I was given are very light and hard to read/scan. We did not receive any info about the remodeling to take place inside the building. The sci that were in attendance at the meeting were: Fred Love, Deb Danos, and Doug MacKay
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? You can get the generic scilon architecture drawings for interior of scilon Ideal orgs on a few Ideal Org webpages, like Montreal, and a few others. They usually include about the same stuff depending on size, etc. Can someone get a size estimate of the existing sign?? This drawing they have planned for a giant concrete sign in the right of way is scary. It is huge!! And it will sit in the grass right by the right turn lane, not even on their property. So they are stealing parking from the post office easement (otherwise the whole mess would be illegal) and they are putting huge sign next to road in the city property.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? The existing sign is about the same size as the sign in the drawing. Looks like they're just gonna dress it up some. You can see it in this satellite view and you can get a pretty good look at it with google street view. It's not so scary when you see it in perspective.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Here is the flier we distributed around the neighborhood of San Diego's Ideal Org: Feel free to harvest from it, as always!
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? It is scary if you see it in maps.live.com birdseye. It is big sign in the public area not even part of the property. I guess it's a moot point since they will be allowed it, though I worry about them trying to get the land that was part of the widening/straightening. I also saw some vague comments about redo-ing/removing the wall as needed.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Next meeting is April 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM in the Municipal Court of Sandy Springs. (Same location as the previous meeting, though they may use the courtroom proper if the crowd is large enough.) There was a letter in my mailbox about it this weekend from one of the neighbor ladies who attended the meeting, pointing out the potential parking/traffic issues. It also suggested a quick look at the internets to find out about "other issues that are of concern" as well. Did I mention I love my neighbors?
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? One thought I had on this, use their own BS "stats" against them. They claim that they only are going to have 100 scientologist there, but they claim to have 10,000,000-15,000,000 members worldwide and 3000 churches (find the exact numbers from Scientology sources). That works out to around 3-5K Scientologists per church. Now obviously the argument can be made that not all churches are equal in size but there's a huge difference between even 100 and 1000 people. They also claim to be the fastest growing religion. This building is supposed to be their church in the area for many years. How will this building support the continuing influx of new members? In short, use their own propaganda against them. Find anything that says how great they are, how they are growing exponentally, how they have millions of members and use it against them. Play it like you completely believe every bullshit line they're throwing out about how huge they are, then they'll have to make sure the building/parking etc. is sufficient for the bullshit ficticious people they keep making up.
Re: Zoning Meeting for Scieno Property--What To Do? Oh, trust me, we'll definitely be hammering that angle. The fact that they're claiming to be growing on their main site and claiming to be not that large when they're asking for the rezoning is damning enough, and it doesn't even matter which end of the equation is true for it to look bad.
